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06-08-2009 04:28 AM

Hello specialist,

is it possible to couple the NX Nastran solver with the NX Flow (tmg) solver inside

the NX Advanced Simulation package?

I have currently the following problem, which I have to analyse. I have the NX Advanced

Simulation package available for NX 5.0.6.3.

We have to investigate the flow situation inside a vessel. The pitfall is, that

have to investigate the flow situation when the vessel is deformed by an external

force. The re - influence of the flow -> surface pressure to the vessel is of minor

interest and is not important to covered by the analysis

Therefore my intent is to couple the NASTRAN FEM and the NX FLOW CFD packages by

an sequential process. The only process which I have found up to now is:

1. Creating the vessel geometric inside the modelling

2. Creating a mesh for the FEM analysis of the vessel

3. Solve the deformation analysis with the NASTRAN solver

4. Export the deformed view from the post processing application to a JT file

5. Re - Import the JT file inside NX Modelling

6. Using the Surface Recunstruction / Reverse Engineering features of the modelling

to create a sheet body / solid body for the inner flow volume

7. Create a new CFD analysis

8. Solve the flow analysis inside the NX FLOW (TMG) application of the deformed

flow volume

Especially the recunstruction of a solid or sheet body from the JT is very time

consuming. Are there other possibilities to couple those applications?

Do I have to investigate in MPcci http://www.mpcci.de/ ?

Can I use a Nastran analysis on two meshes, which are connected via the mesh mating

conditions?

How can I export the deformed mesh and re-import it as new input for a second CFD

analsis?

Regards

Matthias Ahrens

Regards

Matthias Ahrens

2 REPLIES

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06-08-2009 06:13 AM

Basically the answer is Yes to the possibility of coupling NX/FLOW and NX NASTRAN, the mapping capability of TMG Flow is really powerful, you can mesh your vessel with SHELL elements and solve your CFD model mesheing the 3D solid fluid domain with Tetra4 or HEX8 elements. Mapping transfer flow results data from the flow analysis mesh (the source mesh) to a target mesh built for the structural NX NASTRAN solver. This feature is available in NX5 AdvSim & NX5/Flow.

According HELP:

a.. TMG Flow Mapping creates an association between each node of the target model that borders the fluid domain in the flow model

b.. Static pressure and shear stress results are mapped from the closest 3D fluid element face

c.. These results are convrted to vector data of orces that the fluid exerts on the surface of the target model

d.. Mapped flow forces are written in the results file (*.bun) that can be used to view mapping results in postprocessing, or included in an NX NASTRAN simulation as a pre-load.

But what you really request is the capability to "create a 3D Solid body from the true deformed mesh shape based on displacement results" from a structural static or nonlinear analysis, and in my opinion it is very interesting, in the past I had already filed & requested it to SIEMENS as a wish list. In NX the only method that I see available to export/import anything is JT. For instance, in FEMAP we have a macro in Custom Tools that moves nodes by deform, then you can create a new FE model with the true deformed shape with nodal coordinates updated according displacement results, this is a good resource to investigate buckling nonlinear problems with imperfections, or to compute the true volume of the deformed shape.

I know that what you request is possible in another integrated CAD/FEA systems through the use of VRML mechanism. The VRML file that contains as many faces as the numbr of element faces of the meshed model, then the CAD system converts the VRML file in a solid model, which you can use it to mesh again.

I guest we can do the same in NX using JT??. Of course, yes, we need votes to push SIEMENS to understand that it is a very important feature for the Analysis Community to add it in the next realease of NX7 -- please!!.

But Mattias, please be aware that displacement results from a structural linear static analysis are small, then the influence of the deformed shape in the CFD fluid analysis is meaningless. If you have "very large displacements" results, then you will need to solve your structural problem using nonlinear analysis, OK?.

Best regards,

Blas.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Blas Molero Hidalgo

Ingeniero Industrial

Director

IBERISA

Edificio Ercilla

Rodríguez Arias 23, 3º - Dpto. 19

48011 BILBAO (SPAIN)

Tel. (+34) 94 410 65 50

Fax. (+34) 94 470 26 34

E-mail: info@iberisa.com

WEB: http://www.iberisa.com

"Matthias Ahrens"

>

> Hello specialist,

>

> is it possible to couple the NX Nastran solver with the NX Flow (tmg) solver inside

> the NX Advanced Simulation package?

>

> I have currently the following problem, which I have to analyse. I have the NX Advanced

> Simulation package available for NX 5.0.6.3.

>

> We have to investigate the flow situation inside a vessel. The pitfall is, that

> have to investigate the flow situation when the vessel is deformed by an external

> force. The re - influence of the flow -> surface pressure to the vessel is of minor

> interest and is not important to covered by the analysis

>

> Therefore my intent is to couple the NASTRAN FEM and the NX FLOW CFD packages by

> an sequential process. The only process which I have found up to now is:

>

> 1. Creating the vessel geometric inside the modelling

> 2. Creating a mesh for the FEM analysis of the vessel

> 3. Solve the deformation analysis with the NASTRAN solver

> 4. Export the deformed view from the post processing application to a JT file

> 5. Re - Import the JT file inside NX Modelling

> 6. Using the Surface Recunstruction / Reverse Engineering features of the modelling

> to create a sheet body / solid body for the inner flow volume

> 7. Create a new CFD analysis

> 8. Solve the flow analysis inside the NX FLOW (TMG) application of the deformed

> flow volume

>

> Especially the recunstruction of a solid or sheet body from the JT is very time

> consuming. Are there other possibilities to couple those applications?

>

> Do I have to investigate in MPcci http://www.mpcci.de/ ?

> Can I use a Nastran analysis on two meshes, which are connected via the mesh mating

> conditions?

> How can I export the deformed mesh and re-import it as new input for a second CFD

> analsis?

>

> Regards

>

> Matthias Ahrens

> Regards

>

> Matthias Ahrens

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06-09-2009 08:17 AM

Dear Blas,

Thanks for your response. Based on your comments I have created a NX 5.0.6.3 VB

.NET macro "FEM_mesh_move_node_by_file.vb", which is moving multiple nodes on a

mesh by a list of displacements, stored in a file. The source file has to be named

"node_dicplacement.dat" and has to be located inside the "UGII_TMP_DIR". The content

for the file can be simply copied from the listing windows, which will pop up, when

we use the "I" button on the identify report window (cut all description lines).

With this macro I'm able to remove my nodes on a coubled meshed by the result report.

I will now try to test if I can use this modified mesh again in a new NX flow analysis.

If this will work I have to search for NX NASTRAN properties of a "stress neutral"

material, which I can apply to the coubled (flow) mesh.

Thank you

Regards

Matthias

"Blas Molero Hidalgo"

>

>

>Dear Matthias,

>Basically the answer is Yes to the possibility of coupling NX/FLOW and =

>NX NASTRAN, the mapping capability of TMG Flow is really powerful, you =

>can mesh your vessel with SHELL elements and solve your CFD model =

>mesheing the 3D solid fluid domain with Tetra4 or HEX8 elements. Mapping =

>transfer flow results data from the flow analysis mesh (the source mesh) =

>to a target mesh built for the structural NX NASTRAN solver. This =

>feature is available in NX5 AdvSim & NX5/Flow.

>According HELP:

> a.. TMG Flow Mapping creates an association between each node of the =

>target model that borders the fluid domain in the flow model

> b.. Static pressure and shear stress results are mapped from the =

>closest 3D fluid element face

> c.. These results are convrted to vector data of orces that the fluid =

>exerts on the surface of the target model

> d.. Mapped flow forces are written in the results file (*.bun) that =

>can be used to view mapping results in postprocessing, or included in an =

>NX NASTRAN simulation as a pre-load.

>But what you really request is the capability to "create a 3D Solid body =

>from the true deformed mesh shape based on displacement results" from a =

>structural static or nonlinear analysis, and in my opinion it is very =

>interesting, in the past I had already filed & requested it to SIEMENS =

>as a wish list. In NX the only method that I see available to =

>export/import anything is JT. For instance, in FEMAP we have a macro in =

>Custom Tools that moves nodes by deform, then you can create a new FE =

>model with the true deformed shape with nodal coordinates updated =

>according displacement results, this is a good resource to investigate =

>buckling nonlinear problems with imperfections, or to compute the true =

>volume of the deformed shape.

>

>I know that what you request is possible in another integrated CAD/FEA =

>systems through the use of VRML mechanism. The VRML file that contains =

>as many faces as the numbr of element faces of the meshed model, then =

>the CAD system converts the VRML file in a solid model, which you can =

>use it to mesh again.

>I guest we can do the same in NX using JT??. Of course, yes, we need =

>votes to push SIEMENS to understand that it is a very important feature =

>for the Analysis Community to add it in the next realease of NX7 -- =

>please!!.

>

>But Mattias, please be aware that displacement results from a structural =

>linear static analysis are small, then the influence of the deformed =

>shape in the CFD fluid analysis is meaningless. If you have "very large =

>displacements" results, then you will need to solve your structural =

>problem using nonlinear analysis, OK?.

>

>Best regards,

>Blas.

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Blas Molero Hidalgo

>Ingeniero Industrial

>Director

>=20

>IBERISA

>Edificio Ercilla

>Rodr=EDguez Arias 23, 3=BA - Dpto. 19

>48011 BILBAO (SPAIN)

>Tel. (+34) 94 410 65 50

>Fax. (+34) 94 470 26 34

>E-mail: info@iberisa.com

>WEB: http://www.iberisa.com

>

>

>"Matthias Ahrens"

>mensaje de noticias news:4a2ccbc6$1@bbsnotes.ugs.com...

>>=20

>> Hello specialist,

>>=20

>> is it possible to couple the NX Nastran solver with the NX Flow (tmg) =

>solver inside

>> the NX Advanced Simulation package?

>>=20

>> I have currently the following problem, which I have to analyse. I =

>have the NX Advanced

>> Simulation package available for NX 5.0.6.3.

>>=20

>> We have to investigate the flow situation inside a vessel. The pitfall =

>is, that

>> have to investigate the flow situation when the vessel is deformed by =

>an external

>> force. The re - influence of the flow -> surface pressure to the =

>vessel is of minor

>> interest and is not important to covered by the analysis=20

>>=20

>> Therefore my intent is to couple the NASTRAN FEM and the NX FLOW CFD =

>packages by

>> an sequential process. The only process which I have found up to now =

>is:

>>=20

>> 1. Creating the vessel geometric inside the modelling

>> 2. Creating a mesh for the FEM analysis of the vessel

>> 3. Solve the deformation analysis with the NASTRAN solver

>> 4. Export the deformed view from the post processing application to a =

>JT file

>> 5. Re - Import the JT file inside NX Modelling

>> 6. Using the Surface Recunstruction / Reverse Engineering features of =

>the modelling

>> to create a sheet body / solid body for the inner flow volume

>> 7. Create a new CFD analysis

>> 8. Solve the flow analysis inside the NX FLOW (TMG) application of the =

>deformed

>> flow volume

>>=20

>> Especially the recunstruction of a solid or sheet body from the JT is =

>very time

>> consuming. Are there other possibilities to couple those applications?

>>=20

>> Do I have to investigate in MPcci http://www.mpcci.de/ ?

>> Can I use a Nastran analysis on two meshes, which are connected via =

>the mesh mating

>> conditions?

>> How can I export the deformed mesh and re-import it as new input for a =

>second CFD

>> analsis?

>>=20

>> Regards

>>=20

>> Matthias Ahrens

>> Regards

>>=20

>> Matthias Ahrens

>

>

>

><meta http-equiv="3DContent-Type" content="3D"text/html;" />>charset=3Diso-8859-1">

><meta content="3D"MSHTML" 6.00.6001.18226="" />

>

>

>

>

Dear Matthias,

>

Basically the answer is =

>Yes to the=20

>possibility of coupling NX/FLOW and NX NASTRAN, the mapping =

>capability of=20

>TMG Flow is really powerful, you can mesh your vessel with SHELL =

>elements and=20

>solve your CFD model mesheing the 3D solid fluid domain with Tetra4 =

>or HEX8=20

>elements. Mapping transfer flow results data from the flow analysis mesh =

>(the=20

>source mesh) to a target mesh built for the structural NX NASTRAN =

>solver. This=20

>feature is available in NX5 AdvSim & NX5/Flow.

>Yes to the=20

>possibility of coupling NX/FLOW and NX NASTRAN, the mapping =

>capability of=20

>TMG Flow is really powerful, you can mesh your vessel with SHELL =

>elements and=20

>solve your CFD model mesheing the 3D solid fluid domain with Tetra4 =

>or HEX8=20

>elements. Mapping transfer flow results data from the flow analysis mesh =

>(the=20

>source mesh) to a target mesh built for the structural NX NASTRAN =

>solver. This=20

>feature is available in NX5 AdvSim & NX5/Flow.

>

According HELP:

>

- >
- TMG Flow Mapping creates an =

>association between=20

> each node of the target model that borders the fluid domain in the =

>flow=20

> model > - Static pressure and shear stress =

>results are=20

> mapped from the closest 3D fluid element face > - These results are convrted to vector =

>data of=20

> orces that the fluid exerts on the surface of the target =

>model > - Mapped flow forces are written in =

>the results=20

> file (*.bun) that can be used to view mapping results in =

>postprocessing, or=20

> included in an NX NASTRAN simulation as a pre-load.

>

But what you really request is the =

>capability to=20

>"create a 3D Solid body from the true =

>deformed=20

>mesh shape based on displacement results" from a =

>structural=20

>static or nonlinear analysis, and in my opinion it is very =

>interesting, in=20

>the past I had already filed & requested it to SIEMENS as a =

>wish list.=20

>In NX the only method that I see available to export/import =

>anything is JT.=20

>For instance, in FEMAP we have a macro in Custom Tools that moves nodes =

>by=20

>deform, then you can create a new FE model with the true deformed shape =

>with=20

>nodal coordinates updated according displacement results, this is a good =

>

>resource to investigate buckling nonlinear problems with imperfections, =

>or to=20

>compute the true volume of the deformed shape.

>capability to=20

>"create a 3D Solid body from the true =

>deformed=20

>mesh shape based on displacement results" from a =

>structural=20

>static or nonlinear analysis, and in my opinion it is very =

>interesting, in=20

>the past I had already filed & requested it to SIEMENS as a =

>wish list.=20

>In NX the only method that I see available to export/import =

>anything is JT.=20

>For instance, in FEMAP we have a macro in Custom Tools that moves nodes =

>by=20

>deform, then you can create a new FE model with the true deformed shape =

>with=20

>nodal coordinates updated according displacement results, this is a good =

>

>resource to investigate buckling nonlinear problems with imperfections, =

>or to=20

>compute the true volume of the deformed shape.

>

>

I know that what you request is =

>possible in=20

>another integrated CAD/FEA systems through the use of VRML mechanism. =

>The VRML=20

>file that contains as many faces as the numbr of element faces of =

>the=20

>meshed model, then the CAD system converts the VRML file in a solid =

>model,=20

>which you can use it to mesh again.

>possible in=20

>another integrated CAD/FEA systems through the use of VRML mechanism. =

>The VRML=20

>file that contains as many faces as the numbr of element faces of =

>the=20

>meshed model, then the CAD system converts the VRML file in a solid =

>model,=20

>which you can use it to mesh again.

>

I guest we can do the same =

>in NX using=20

>JT??. Of course, yes, we need votes to push SIEMENS to understand =

>that=20

>it is a very important feature for the Analysis Community to add it =

>in the=20

>next realease of NX7 -- please!!.

>

But Mattias, please be =

>aware that=20

>displacement results from a structural linear static analysis are =

>small,=20

>then the influence of the deformed shape in the CFD fluid analysis is=20

>meaningless. If you have "very large displacements" results, then you =

>will need=20

>to solve your structural problem using nonlinear analysis, =

>OK?.

>

Best =

>regards,

Blas.>face=3DVerdana size=3D2>

>color=3D#c0c0c0>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Blas=20

>Molero Hidalgo

Ingeniero=20

>Industrial

Director

IBERISA

Edificio =

>Ercilla

Rodr=EDguez=20

>Arias 23, 3=BA - Dpto. 19

48011 BILBAO (SPAIN)

Tel. (+34) 94 410 =

>65=20

>50

Fax. (+34) 94 470 26 34

E-mail: >href=3D"mailto:info@iberisa.com">>size=3D2>info@iberisa.com

>color=3D#c0c0c0=20

>size=3D2>WEB: >face=3DVerdana=20

>color=3D#c0c0c0 size=3D2>http://www.iberisa.com

>

>

"Matthias Ahrens" <>href=3D"mailto:ahrens.matthias@westfalia.com">>size=3D2>ahrens.matthias@westfalia.com>size=3D2>>=20

>escribi=F3 en el mensaje de noticias >href=3D"news:4a2ccbc6$1@bbsnotes.ugs.com">>size=3D2>news:4a2ccbc6$1@bbsnotes.ugs.com>size=3D2>...

> >escribi=F3 en el mensaje de noticias >href=3D"news:4a2ccbc6$1@bbsnotes.ugs.com">>size=3D2>news:4a2ccbc6$1@bbsnotes.ugs.com>size=3D2>...

> Hello =

>

>specialist,

>

> is it possible to couple the NX Nastran =

>solver with=20

>the NX Flow (tmg) solver inside

> the NX Advanced Simulation=20

>package?

>

> I have currently the following problem, which =

>I have=20

>to analyse. I have the NX Advanced

> Simulation package available =

>for NX=20

>5.0.6.3.

>

> We have to investigate the flow situation =

>inside a=20

>vessel. The pitfall is, that

> have to investigate the flow =

>situation when=20

>the vessel is deformed by an external

> force. The re - influence =

>of the=20

>flow -> surface pressure to the vessel is of minor

> interest =

>and is=20

>not important to covered by the analysis

>

> Therefore my =

>intent=20

>is to couple the NASTRAN FEM and the NX FLOW CFD packages by

> an=20

>sequential process. The only process which I have found up to now =

>is:

>=20

>

> 1. Creating the vessel geometric inside the modelling

> =

>2.=20

>Creating a mesh for the FEM analysis of the vessel

> 3. Solve the=20

>deformation analysis with the NASTRAN solver

> 4. Export the =

>deformed view=20

>from the post processing application to a JT file

> 5. Re - Import =

>the JT=20

>file inside NX Modelling

> 6. Using the Surface Recunstruction / =

>Reverse=20

>Engineering features of the modelling

> to create a sheet body / =

>solid=20

>body for the inner flow volume

> 7. Create a new CFD =

>analysis

> 8.=20

>Solve the flow analysis inside the NX FLOW (TMG) application of the=20

>deformed

> flow volume

>

> Especially the =

>recunstruction of a=20

>solid or sheet body from the JT is very time

> consuming. Are =

>there other=20

>possibilities to couple those applications?

>

> Do I have =

>to=20

>investigate in MPcci >

>face=3DArial size=3D2>http://www.mpcci.de/>size=3D2>=20

>?

> Can I use a Nastran analysis on two meshes, which are =

>connected via=20

>the mesh mating

> conditions?

> How can I export the =

>deformed mesh=20

>and re-import it as new input for a second CFD

> analsis?

> =

>

>=20

>Regards

>

> Matthias Ahrens

> Regards

> =

>

>=20

>Matthias Ahrens

>

>

Regards

Matthias Ahrens

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