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Invitation to support ER - enhance coolant selection and output

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Below find a proposal for an enhancement request regarding coolant selection and output.

If you would like to get rid of your customization and have things included in the standard shipping with NX, create a "me too" request at GTAC.

          ER Template
          ===========
1. Short Description of desired enhancement: <Problem rather than a solution> 
   + it is not possible to select combinations of coolants and to output multiple coolant codes for new machines in one block
2. What activity in your process is the product not able to currently handle? 
   + we want to combine coolant codes, like FLOOD and THRU in a single NC block
   + in addition AIR and AIR_THRU are missing
   + modern controllers, like the Sinumerik 840D v4.7, use a M code to enable AIR and FLOOD and a separate M code for outside and through coolant
   + allow specifying the pressure for the through coolant
3. What result are you trying to achieve? (Please provide as many details as possible.) 
   + we like to select all possible coolant combinations through one UDE
   + we want to output coolant codes according to the latest controller standards
4. Do you currently have a workaround? 
   + heavily customize NX to support this 
     - UDEs
     - post-processors
     - etc.
5. Do you have a proposal for the solution you envision Siemens PLM providing for this capability? 
   + replace the drop-down coolant selection with a list of check boxes
   + output multiple coolant codes in the coolant block 
     - Example block for a Sinumerik 840D v4.7: M8 M7 M73 H7=25 H77=0.0 
       * M8 ... outside
       * M7 ... through
       * M73 ... flood
       * H7=25 ... through pressure 25 bar
       * H77=0.0 ... pressure monitoring
6. What is the level of productivity gained from such an enhancement? 
   + HIGH, keep each and every customer from customizing coolant selection and output
7. Other information: 
   + Link us to ER#9360761

Hope to have customization reduced in the future by keeping a close look on the machine tool vendors.

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.2, FBM, MRL 3.1.7 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 11.4
Development: C (ITK), .NET, Tcl/Tk Testing: NX12.0 | AWC 3.4 Preparing: NX12.0

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8 REPLIES 8

Re: Invitation to support ER - enhance coolant selection and output

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

hi,

I was asking GTAC about similar stuff. I am currently waiting for some conclusion.

Then I can post the answers.

 

Anyway I am using own coolant ude ( many options).

When closed open/areas appeared I have read variables and transfer logic to call my ude with setting of specific coolant.

In last step I am checking mom_coolant_through and re-set coolant to "outside" type if tool has no coolant.

 

So currently I have a workaround for control for coolant types. (I did it as best as I could and what systems allows me)

 

PP shared, enjoy.

 

---------------------------------------------
#♫ PB, 5ax, itnc, nx, vericut ♫ #

Re: Invitation to support ER - enhance coolant selection and output

Phenom
Phenom
I agree that the current OTB coolant code is lacking. I am not sure what OTB approach would cover all cases. Many machine tool builders are lazy with their coolant related logic. You may have situations where pumps have to be started by a G code - or pressures ramped up. Then separate coolant lines may all have to be shut off and turned on individually just to turn one off. I make a custom ude with drop down for all coolant settings that compete for a line. I have had udes with 4 dropdowns (4 lines.) Internal and external usually have a separate line - and that may run air or mist or coolant. I consider every coolant "on" ude a status setting for each line. Then whatever change in status is - the post needs to handle taking current status to the new status. I usually place a timing setting (before/after next rapid/feed or immediate) to not require markers - I prefer programmers don't use them.
NX12.02
Windows 10 Pro

Re: Invitation to support ER - enhance coolant selection and output

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Sure I can customize the hell out of NX, but I have also talked to other CAM administrators and they all ask for bringing the OOTB features into the current century.

Here we use air and air-through since more than 15 years, so it was time to ask for getting a more modern approach for the current controllers.

I am tired of adding my own set of UDEs, Tcl code and more, for things that are now state-of-the-art.

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.2, FBM, MRL 3.1.7 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 11.4
Development: C (ITK), .NET, Tcl/Tk Testing: NX12.0 | AWC 3.4 Preparing: NX12.0

Employees of the customers, together we are strong Smiley Wink
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Re: Invitation to support ER - simplify coolant application

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Stefan -

I too find coolants "fun" ;-)

A couple issues not (directly) addressed in your ER:

 

How do you propose to handle machines that have multiple, independent, coolants?
E.g. our Integrex machines have:

- flood

- none/low pressure/high pressure/air "thru" options

- high pressure thru may have options for specifying pressure (different machines use M or K or other words)

- steady rest coolant

- tailstock coolant

- (turning) spindle / chuck coolants

- etc.?

 

Also, for deep hole drilling, coolant may need to be turned on/off at specific times (e.g. thru coolant has to be turned on AFTER the drill is inserted into the "pre-drilled" hole, and turned off before the tool is fully retracted out of the hole?)

 

Just wondering...

 

Edit -

Maybe this would be more appropriate as a response in this thread:

https://community.plm.automation.siemens.com/t5/Discussion-Forum-NX-Manufacturing/Invitation-to-supp...

 

Ken Akerboom Sr CAx Systems Engr, Moog, Inc.
Production: NX10.0.3.5 MP16/TC11.2
I'd rather be e-steamed than e-diseaseled


Re: Invitation to support ER - simplify coolant application

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@Ken_A ,

sure the list of available coolants gets bigger, if you include turning, mill-turn and turn-mill machines. Since the text is only a proposal, everyone can add more cases to it.

When we talk about single move drilling, then it is best to not force the coolant output at a specific position. The single move drilling operation and MOM are smart enough to do this right, if the post-processor was not bent.

In general one gets the best of all worlds, if the NC code is not meant to be editable by the machine operator, the only thing that counts is that the controller is happy and understands the NC code.

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.2, FBM, MRL 3.1.7 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 11.4
Development: C (ITK), .NET, Tcl/Tk Testing: NX12.0 | AWC 3.4 Preparing: NX12.0

Employees of the customers, together we are strong Smiley Wink
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Re: Invitation to support ER - simplify coolant application

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom

Hi all,

 

I really like this discussion, very good points made. As you might have seen, we introduced the new Region specific Coolant for Open and Closed Areas in the last NX Version, January 2019. It was a first step and we are aware, that this won't cover all the coolant types in the world with this first version.

 

With that being said, from the CAM side, I guess we need to distinguish between two scenarios. One is where you program you parts without a machine loaded, so we would need to define the possible set cooling scenarions somewhere.

When a machine is loaded, this knowledge should come from the machine kit itself (somehow possible with UDE's currently).

 

We are aware, that the coolant has become (even more as in the past) very important to the machining process. 

 

I really like the concept of @Stefan_Pendl to create ER's in such cases, where everyone can participate. That helps a lot for our internal development process.

 

So I didn't want to interrupt the discussion. I would be happy to hear your thoughts on how your view on coolant is :-)

 

Cheers,

Alexander

Lead Product Manager - Mold & Die

Re: Invitation to support ER - simplify coolant application

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@AlexanderFreund ,

in our company it is the standard to program without a loaded machine, since we are programming more for groups of machines and they are all different in respect to coolant selection.

In many cases the coolant is set by the machine operator just before he post-processes the NC code.

In a perfect world, we would have at least two similar machines each and we could program with the loaded machine, but the world is not perfect, similar to us humans and to software.

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.2, FBM, MRL 3.1.7 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 11.4
Development: C (ITK), .NET, Tcl/Tk Testing: NX12.0 | AWC 3.4 Preparing: NX12.0

Employees of the customers, together we are strong Smiley Wink
How to Get the Most from Your Signature in the Community
NX Customization - Best Practice Guide

Re: Invitation to support ER - simplify coolant application

Creator
Creator

Interesting discussion. My little tip:

 

For me, analysing the kind of tools we are using in our machines, will be interesting the coolant control in the tool specifictly. To create a library will be perfect, the NC programmer have the coolant specified correctly.

Engineer and NC Programmer
NX 12.0.2 mp5

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