Cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Highlighted

Views on Synchronous Modeling

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

I've been using NX since before "Direct Editing", and now "Synchronous Modeling", so I view those tools as something to be used on an imported "dumb" body, since that is what they were designed for.

 

Now, the OOTB Home tab in the modeling application has the Synchronous tools right there, so new users don't see them as something for use on an imported dumb body, but simply tools to be used.  I find more and more models from our new users, that have synchronous features thru out the feature tree.  Personal opinion, they seem less stable, when ohter changes are made, and much like 'bandaids', in the modeling method.

 

So I guess my question is two fold, what is Siemens PLM's opinion on the use of Synchronous Modeling tools?  is there a "best practice" for when to use them?  and how do other users feel about their use?

 

...or am I just stuck in my old ways, and out of date, in avoiding there use, for anything other than imported data?

 

Talking with another long time NX user, he feels Synchronous features should only be at the begining of the tree, when starting with a dumb body, or at the very end, for a quick clean up, of a traditional scratch built model.

 

 

-Dave
NX 11 | Teamcenter 11 | Windows 10
14 REPLIES 14

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Genius
Genius

Awesome post! In my personal understanding, Synchronous Modeling seems to be developed for the tooling industry? And it seems to be a big brother of Convergent Modeling. One for "dumb" bodies, and the other for facet bodies.

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

My personal opinion (NOTE: I do not do "production" design - I am more of a system admin type).

You really should always edit hte original features, rather than "band aid" Synch. modeling features on top of the original (as you then have 2 or more features defining the one thing).  Makes the feature tree longer as well, and (if enough features) HARDER to edit later (leading to more "band aids" :-( )

 

They should primarily be used to modify

- Imported geometry

- WAVE linked (or promoted) geometry (e.g. if engineering doesn't model a part to the way manufacturing will actually make it - e.g. non-symmetrical tolerances, fillets to "MAX" value, fillets/rounds not even modelled, etc.)

Ken Akerboom Sr CAx Systems Engr, Moog, Inc.
Production: NX10.0.3.5 MP16/TC11.2
I'd rather be e-steamed than e-diseaseled


Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor

I'm with the general sentiment here.  Synchronous should primarily be used with dumb models.

 

The problem we face here is my company used a direct modeling only CAD system for 15+ years before moving to NX about 5 years ago.  Old habits die hard, so I routinely see models with dozens (if not hundreds) of features, 90% of which are Synchronous "features".  And it does snowball since the only way to modify the models at that point is with more Synchronous, or remastering from square one.

 

It's maddening to me in a support role, but we regularly hear "I don't have time to do it correctly."  This is more of an issue with the longer tenured employees.  The newer employees don't have the baggage of the direct modeler and generally learned CAD with parametric modelers, so our modeling practices in general are slowly improving.

 

One thing we did when we upgraded from NX8.5 to NX11 was to remove the Synchronous commands from the Home tab and put them on their own tab.  Kind of an out of sight, out of mind thing.

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

@mx_scot wrote:

 

One thing we did when we upgraded from NX8.5 to NX11 was to remove the Synchronous commands from the Home tab and put them on their own tab.  Kind of an out of sight, out of mind thing.


I just started doing that today, unfortunatly too many users have saved their own roles off, and I'm not sure how to deal with that.

-Dave
NX 11 | Teamcenter 11 | Windows 10

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

@BenBroad is there any Siemens PLM "best practice" for synchronous use?

-Dave
NX 11 | Teamcenter 11 | Windows 10

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

@DaveK,

I'm not a fan of Synchronous Modeling for anything other than revising models without history. I try to push our users to not use Synchronous but it's difficult to enforce. We have users all over the world and no one wants to dive into strict modeling standards (tens of thousands of existing parts, writing the whole standard, etc., etc.) or enforce any standards to the letter.

If I were determined to not allow the use of certain commands in specific situations, I would go the route of adding it into some sort of internal standard/practice as well as attempt to limit the access to those commands via administration. I'm not even sure if it's possible to lock down a group of commands while still allowing the user to move other commands around at their convenience but it's been ages since I've had to deal with customization outside of the drag & drop method.

Tim
NX 11.0.2.7 MP11 Rev. A
GM TcE v11.2.3.1
GM GPDL v11-A.3.5.1

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

Agreed.

 

this is why I'd like to know what Siemens PLM thinks, because the common policy here is to follow, "Siemens best practice".  Now, what that is, with a piece of software with as much flexability, and various usages like NX, is nearly impossible to pin down, and in our experience Siemens generally shys away from taking a stand.  Example, our pre-sales rep, is usually, "well sure you can do that!", but in reality, "can", and "should" may not be the same.

-Dave
NX 11 | Teamcenter 11 | Windows 10

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Siemens Honored Contributor Siemens Honored Contributor
Siemens Honored Contributor

@DaveK wrote:

@BenBroad is there any Siemens PLM "best practice" for synchronous use?


Hi @DaveK,

 

After a quick search, I couldn't find a "best practices" perse, but I did find a lot of information out on the interwebs, including intro videos from Paul Brown and Tony & Chuck, lots of demo videos on YouTube, Solid Edge University Case Studies (videos) and studies by industry analysts.  You also have to realize that Synchronous Technology isn't limited to Modeling, you also have Sychronous Freeform and Synchronous 2D.  While you can create geometry from scratch you can also quickly edit complex part files without understanding their feature history, edit non-parametric geometry from 3rd party 3D products, edit translated/imported 2D drawings and create quick "what-if" studies for Simulation purposes.

 

I tried to focus on NX, but the technology is shared with Solid Edge, so I added a couple of SE links too.

Not sure if any of this will help, but it might increase your knowledge of the benefits and capabilities of Synchronous Technology.

 

Regards, Ben

 

Synchronous Technology

Synchronous technology connects everyone in the product lifecycle – and it connects them all without limiting any of them. Connection without limitation. Freedom with coordination. That is how synchronous technology helps you innovate more – and makes your design process up to 100 times faster.

 

With synchronous technology in Solid Edge and NX, you no longer have to choose between constraint-driven or history-free modeling. You no longer have to be a programmer to re-use a model. And you no longer need to worry about using data from multiple CAD systems.


NX Synchronous Technology
With Synchronous Technology, you can create designs in a natural way. There's no need to pre-plan designs, or spend time worrying about the model's future use. results: up to 100 times faster design experience for many activities.

 

With Synchronous Technology, design reuse doesn't have to mean remodeling. Anyone can change any model regardless of who created the original. result: Engineering Change Orders in seconds that would've taken hours. With Synchronous Technology, designers can easily access and edit models created in any CAD system. Synchronous Technology enables even occasional users to edit CAD data from other systems FASTER than the original system can!

 

 

John Winter, Mechanical Engineering Manager, Bird Technologies

"Solid Edge makes creating and editing 3D CAD (computer-aided design) models faster and easier through our unique synchronous technology – which combines the speed and simplicity of direct modeling with the flexibility and control of parametric design.

 

Solid Edge synchronous technology allows you to rapidly create new concept designs, easily respond to change requests, and make simultaneous updates to multiple parts within an assembly. With this design flexibility, you can eliminate cumbersome preplanning and avoid feature failures, rebuild issues, and time-consuming rework. The power of synchronous technology also allows you to treat multi-CAD data just like native files, supporting seamless collaboration with suppliers and partners.

 

Using Solid Edge with synchronous technology I can actually do many more iterations now that I wasn’t able to do before. And because of that, the cost of the product comes down. The weight of the product comes down. The performance goes up. The warranty is a lot longer. Quality loves it. We love it. The profit margin loves it."

 

Re: Views on Synchronous Modeling

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

Thanks @BenBroad.  So far, the ones I have read/watched, all seem to support my views, even though others may not see it that way, lol.  I think synchronous is great for imported data, dumb data, or scheming.  BUT, I have not seen a demonstration made, to support the use of synchronous features, scattered thruought a traditional feature based model.

 

In the part that got me started on this, the file contains a series of sketches, which control the shape of the part, at the top of the tree.  All named, and organized, with dimesions driven by named expressions.  One would think, if I edit Length, the length will change...and it does, up until it gets to the synchronous feature, which blows up.  Why does it blow up?  well, you have no clue, because the faces used, no longer exist.  Now your stuck rolling it back, looking at that synchronous feature, to figure out the who, what, and why behind it.  My gut tells me, that this was not the intent, with the "ease of synchronous modeling".  Now, when I look at the why for this feature, I can see that had the original user gone with a more traditional (aka, old out dated fosilized) method, it would have been more stable, and not blown up.  Experience tells me that.  New users seeing that quick fix button, don't have that experience, and it works in the short term.  Why go thru the trouble of creating all of that background traditional feature based model, if you can wreck its use, by applying synchronous band aids mid stream?

 

I guess my point is this, in my experience, by Siemens PLM putting the Synchronous Modeling tools right there on the Home Tab, new, inexperienced users will go to them as a band aid, to fix bad feature based modeling techniques.  it is also a very hard sell, when trying to encourage better modeling, when they can point to the ribbon, and say, "...but they have this right here", and that in advertantly, encourages bad modeling techniques.

 

...or maybe I'm just stuck in my old ways.  I just see the use for synchronous modeling tools, as NOT in the middle of feature based modeling.

 

 

-Dave
NX 11 | Teamcenter 11 | Windows 10