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Flat Pattern Display curves

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom

Hi all,

Your opinion on the following flat pattern presentation is requested:

The part shown has a hole created through the material at an angle and currently the flat pattern shows 'some' of the curves.

2017-03-31 12_06_50-Presentation1 - PowerPoint.jpg

2017-03-31 12_07_30-Presentation1 - PowerPoint.jpg

 

What would expect to see on the flat pattern (and in the export file)?  Clearly this cannot be punched (or laser cut) in the flat.

 

Would you expect:

  1. Both curves on the flat pattern in full outline classified as interior cutouts?
  2. Both curves on the flat pattern with bottom side classified as 'Added Bottom' curves
  3. Only show top curve and visible bottom side curves
  4. Classify all curves as 'Interior Features'
  5. Something else?

2017-03-31 12_04_10-Presentation1 - PowerPoint.jpg

I'm not sure what can be achieved just yet, however would value your input.

 

thanks,

Dave

8 REPLIES

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

PLM World Member Genius PLM World Member Genius
PLM World Member Genius

Dave,

For me this is sort of a tough question. One, I wouldn't generate a hole like this in the first place due to your original statement, it can't be laser cut or punched. We would use a normal cutout which would generate an ellipse.

 

Now, that being said, if I was sending this out to have it machined, I would expect the flat pattern display to correspond with normal orthographic projection standards which would be a mirror image of Option#2 assuming the red circle in your picture represents the top face of the flat pattern.

 

I would expect the line display to be "Both curves on the flat pattern with bottom side classified as 'Added Bottom' curves". But that just the way I see it. I'm sure others may want it differently. The main reason is that I would hope when it went to CAM (for laser cutting) that it would ignore that hole  and not tool those curves up for cutting. Thus only cutting the hole in the other face and the perimeter cut but leaving a representation of those curves for other operations. I generally just pass this model to my machinist and he deals with these types of cuts from the 3D model.

 

I'm sure Frank, Nicholas and anyone else dealing with the passing of this information off to a 3rd party Sheet Metal CAM system would like to not introduce geometry that would compromise the fabrication of parts via normal methods. The less a CAM person has to tweak a file the better. Especially if we are dealing with multiple revisions and the first time they catch issues, and then next time they don't. That is the issue as long as the DXF/GEO is passed outside of NX and has to be processed in another system. That intelligence is usually lost.

 

My old CAD system, Solid Edge, would import directly to my CAM system due to some automation they wrote for us. However, with the way they did it, or the data they received, we always had issues with countersinks and counter bores. When the file came into CAM, the importer had eliminated the thru hole and kept the bigger outer curve. Thus, if the CAM guy didn't read the print and fix it, we were making bad parts. And that somehow was never fixed.

 

In a perfect world, Option 5 would be to flag that "hole" in NX as non manufacturable as a true sheet metal part (laser/punching/etc.) and represent it in a way that a sheet metal CAM system won't process at all. Eliminating any chance that it could be tooled up and processed.

 

HTH,

Ryan

 

 

--
Ryan Gudorf
CAD/CAM Supervisor
Budde Sheet Metal Works, Inc.
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
Solid Edge V20
NX11.0.1
TC10.1.5 32 GB RAM, nVIDIA Quadro K4200

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom
Thanks Ryan, I think your first comment sums it up perfectly "I wouldn't generate a hole like this in the first place".

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

Gears Legend Gears Legend
Gears Legend
I would like to see it as an additional curve option.
That way it will at least not be cut (with the risk of making scrap as Ryan already mentioned); the GEO exporter won't complain and if you need the curve for any other reason at least all curves are available.
Huysmans Metalen n.v.
2x NX 11.0.2.7 Mach Designer
on Win7 64bit
NX Beta Tester with focus on Sheet Metal
Command Finder is your friend

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

PLM World Member Genius PLM World Member Genius
PLM World Member Genius

Dave,

It does until you factor in the "Customer Effect", which is Customers who send me data like this...

 

Have a good weekend, you're closer to it that we are!

Ryan

--
Ryan Gudorf
CAD/CAM Supervisor
Budde Sheet Metal Works, Inc.
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
Solid Edge V20
NX11.0.1
TC10.1.5 32 GB RAM, nVIDIA Quadro K4200

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

Gears Legend Gears Legend
Gears Legend

BTW, the normal cutout as it is now doesn't do it correct either:

 

2017-03-31_08.gifWrong Normal Cutout result under angle

 

To correct this you need to make an extra cutout:2017-03-31_09.gifNormal Cutout correction cutout

 

Thanks for bringing it up

 

Greetings,

Frank

 

 

Huysmans Metalen n.v.
2x NX 11.0.2.7 Mach Designer
on Win7 64bit
NX Beta Tester with focus on Sheet Metal
Command Finder is your friend

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom
There was a small enhancement project in NX11 that improved Normal Cutout however Frank's issue was not resolved. I'm following up on this one to see if there's something we can do.

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

PLM World Member Genius PLM World Member Genius
PLM World Member Genius

As Dave stated, that new 3rd option in NX 11 "Nearest Face" will give you different results. But that "thickness" setting does need "fixed" to work like nearest face, that is a bug in my opinion. The resulting ellipse would be just be a different size.

 

Ryan

 

 

--
Ryan Gudorf
CAD/CAM Supervisor
Budde Sheet Metal Works, Inc.
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
Solid Edge V20
NX11.0.1
TC10.1.5 32 GB RAM, nVIDIA Quadro K4200

Re: Flat Pattern Display curves

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom

Thanks for the feedback on this topic.  We have a number of things to address:

1. Correctly represent oblique holes pictorially in the flat pattern with complete curves.

2017-04-11 08_23_07-IdeasV2.pptx - PowerPoint.jpg

2. Classify the curves as Interior features (or 'Added Top/Bottom')

3. Investigate the 'notch' that's left when using Normal Cutout with Thickness Cut Method

 

Highlighted

Flat Pattern Display curves

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom

Hi all,

Your opinion on the following flat pattern presentation is requested:

The part shown has a hole created through the material at an angle and currently the flat pattern shows 'some' of the curves.

2017-03-31 12_06_50-Presentation1 - PowerPoint.jpg

2017-03-31 12_07_30-Presentation1 - PowerPoint.jpg

 

What would expect to see on the flat pattern (and in the export file)?  Clearly this cannot be punched (or laser cut) in the flat.

 

Would you expect:

  1. Both curves on the flat pattern in full outline classified as interior cutouts?
  2. Both curves on the flat pattern with bottom side classified as 'Added Bottom' curves
  3. Only show top curve and visible bottom side curves
  4. Classify all curves as 'Interior Features'
  5. Something else?

2017-03-31 12_04_10-Presentation1 - PowerPoint.jpg

I'm not sure what can be achieved just yet, however would value your input.

 

thanks,

Dave

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