Reply

Frozen circles


Per the suggestion of Dan Staples on 31 October, I have been stripping out and rationalizing
my original dimension lines to minimize the use of formulas. This has not been
a problem until now suddenly I find I cannot create a circle and relocate it with
either horizontal/vertical relationships or with driving dimensions. Even a brand
new circle created on open space will not submit to the attachment of driving dimensions
or horizontal/vertical relationships with established points on the drawing.
"Alignment indicator" and "maintain relationships" are checked under Tools. Why
cannot even a newly drawn circle be relocated to a desired place in this drawing?
I expect to run into snags with the legacy objects and dimensions I am in the course
of redefining, but why would a new object behave like this?
John
John Hilgenberg
7 REPLIES

Re: Frozen circles

If you grab one of your previously drawn elements and attempt to drag them,
it will force all the constraints to update. When this happens, several of
the dimensions turn Orange indicating an error. Not all of the Orange dims
are bad, but when an error occurs it halts the update, and everything not
able to update turns orange, so you will need to use the process of
elimination to find the error.
--
Ken
http://grundey.blogspot.com
"John Hilgenberg" wrote in message
news:472a8444@bbsnotes.ugs.com...
>
> Per the suggestion of Dan Staples on 31 October, I have been stripping out
> and rationalizing
> my original dimension lines to minimize the use of formulas. This has not
> been
> a problem until now suddenly I find I cannot create a circle and relocate
> it with
> either horizontal/vertical relationships or with driving dimensions. Even
> a brand
> new circle created on open space will not submit to the attachment of
> driving dimensions
> or horizontal/vertical relationships with established points on the
> drawing.
>
> "Alignment indicator" and "maintain relationships" are checked under
> Tools. Why
> cannot even a newly drawn circle be relocated to a desired place in this
> drawing?
>
> I expect to run into snags with the legacy objects and dimensions I am in
> the course
> of redefining, but why would a new object behave like this?
>
> John


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> John Hilgenberg


Re: Frozen circles


Thanks, Ken. I have discovered the orange error dimensions, but being somewhat color
blind, I failed to see them until I had several to fix. I have now lightened the
orange so I can see it.
Actually, my real question was not well stated, and I believe it did not relate
to the error dimensions. On the attached, I have drawn a new free-floating, unconstrained
circle above the side view. I can drag it around all right, but it refuses to
respond to any relationship command such as Concentric or Horizontal/vertical.
I think the file is corrupted. I managed to fix it by deleting everything and then
undoing the delete. Why that helped, I can't guess.
John
----------------------------
"PellaKen" wrote:
>If you grab one of your previously drawn elements and attempt to drag them,
>
>it will force all the constraints to update. When this happens, several of
>
>the dimensions turn Orange indicating an error. Not all of the Orange dims
>
>are bad, but when an error occurs it halts the update, and everything not
>
>able to update turns orange, so you will need to use the process of
>elimination to find the error.
>
>--
>Ken

John Hilgenberg

Re: Frozen circles

The same constraint manager manages both geometric constraints as well as
dimensional constraints. If the sketch is in error, it won't let you
constrain additional elements. That's how I knew to check the existing
stuff.
--
Ken
http://grundey.blogspot.com
"John Hilgenberg" wrote in message
news:472b7459@bbsnotes.ugs.com...
>
> Thanks, Ken. I have discovered the orange error dimensions, but being
> somewhat color
> blind, I failed to see them until I had several to fix. I have now
> lightened the
> orange so I can see it.
>
> Actually, my real question was not well stated, and I believe it did not
> relate
> to the error dimensions. On the attached, I have drawn a new
> free-floating, unconstrained
> circle above the side view. I can drag it around all right, but it
> refuses to
> respond to any relationship command such as Concentric or
> Horizontal/vertical.
> I think the file is corrupted. I managed to fix it by deleting everything
> and then
> undoing the delete. Why that helped, I can't guess.
>
> John
>
> ----------------------------
>
> "PellaKen" wrote:
>>If you grab one of your previously drawn elements and attempt to drag
>>them,
>>
>>it will force all the constraints to update. When this happens, several
>>of
>>
>>the dimensions turn Orange indicating an error. Not all of the Orange
>>dims
>>
>>are bad, but when an error occurs it halts the update, and everything not
>>
>>able to update turns orange, so you will need to use the process of
>>elimination to find the error.
>>
>>--
>>Ken


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> John Hilgenberg


Re: Frozen circles


That solves the circle mystery, Ken, and explains why you directed my attention to
the error dimensions. You are helping me to understand the architecture of this
system.
John
------------------------
"PellaKen" wrote:
>The same constraint manager manages both geometric constraints as well as
>dimensional constraints. If the sketch is in error, it won't let you
>constrain additional elements. That's how I knew to check the existing
>stuff.
>
>--
>Ken
>http://grundey.blogspot.com
>
>"John Hilgenberg" wrote in message
>news:472b7459@bbsnotes.ugs.com...
>>
>> Thanks, Ken. I have discovered the orange error dimensions, but being
>> somewhat color
>> blind, I failed to see them until I had several to fix. I have now
>> lightened the
>> orange so I can see it.
>>
>> Actually, my real question was not well stated, and I believe it did not
>> relate
>> to the error dimensions. On the attached, I have drawn a new
>> free-floating, unconstrained
>> circle above the side view. I can drag it around all right, but it
>> refuses to
>> respond to any relationship command such as Concentric or
>> Horizontal/vertical.
>> I think the file is corrupted. I managed to fix it by deleting everything
>> and then
>> undoing the delete. Why that helped, I can't guess.
>>
>> John
>>
>> ----------------------------
>>
>> "PellaKen" wrote:
>>>If you grab one of your previously drawn elements and attempt to drag
>>>them,
>>>
>>>it will force all the constraints to update. When this happens, several
>>>of
>>>
>>>the dimensions turn Orange indicating an error. Not all of the Orange
>>>dims
>>>
>>>are bad, but when an error occurs it halts the update, and everything not
>>>
>>>able to update turns orange, so you will need to use the process of
>>>elimination to find the error.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ken

>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> John Hilgenberg

>
>
>
John Hilgenberg

Re: Frozen circles

I ended up turning all dims to "driven", cutting all the sketch geometry out
of the drawing and pasting it back in to get it to start working again. Not
sure why I had to do that.
--
Ken
http://grundey.blogspot.com
"John Hilgenberg" wrote in message
news:472f497f$1@bbsnotes.ugs.com...
>
> That solves the circle mystery, Ken, and explains why you directed my
> attention to
> the error dimensions. You are helping me to understand the architecture
> of this
> system.
>
> John
>
> ------------------------
>
> "PellaKen" wrote:
>>The same constraint manager manages both geometric constraints as well as
>>dimensional constraints. If the sketch is in error, it won't let you
>>constrain additional elements. That's how I knew to check the existing
>>stuff.
>>
>>--
>>Ken
>>http://grundey.blogspot.com
>>
>>"John Hilgenberg" wrote in message
>>news:472b7459@bbsnotes.ugs.com...
>>>
>>> Thanks, Ken. I have discovered the orange error dimensions, but being
>>> somewhat color
>>> blind, I failed to see them until I had several to fix. I have now
>>> lightened the
>>> orange so I can see it.
>>>
>>> Actually, my real question was not well stated, and I believe it did not
>>> relate
>>> to the error dimensions. On the attached, I have drawn a new
>>> free-floating, unconstrained
>>> circle above the side view. I can drag it around all right, but it
>>> refuses to
>>> respond to any relationship command such as Concentric or
>>> Horizontal/vertical.
>>> I think the file is corrupted. I managed to fix it by deleting
>>> everything
>>> and then
>>> undoing the delete. Why that helped, I can't guess.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> ----------------------------
>>>
>>> "PellaKen" wrote:
>>>>If you grab one of your previously drawn elements and attempt to drag
>>>>them,
>>>>
>>>>it will force all the constraints to update. When this happens, several
>>>>of
>>>>
>>>>the dimensions turn Orange indicating an error. Not all of the Orange
>>>>dims
>>>>
>>>>are bad, but when an error occurs it halts the update, and everything
>>>>not
>>>>
>>>>able to update turns orange, so you will need to use the process of
>>>>elimination to find the error.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Ken

>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>> John Hilgenberg

>>
>>
>>
>
> John Hilgenberg

Re: Frozen circles


Both times this happened to me were the result of dragging objects that had relationships
with but no actual connection to other objects -- like one of the three views in
a typical engineering drawing. For reasons explained by Ken, when you drag, the
slight diagonal slip in direction can throw a lot of things out of whack.
All novices (like me) reading this forum should consider the following suggestion.
If you need to move a "view" (as in my case, moving up the top view to make more
space between it and the front view), don't try to drag it. You may end up with
all these error dimensions and large waste of time. Instead, place a temporary
"distance between" dimension between the views. It should be a driving dimension,
and you can change it. The change will probably not cause the orange dim errors,
because you are moving in a legal direction: straight up or straight sideways.
Then undo and redo until you're sure everything is moving together. You may find
that some elements have been "left behind" in this move because they were not properly
attached. This is good - you can now fix those hidden errors. When you're confident
that everything is moving together and you are getting no orange dim errors, delete
the dimension you used for the move. It should take less time than I have spent
describing the process. Don't save in the middle of any of this. You want to be
able to go all the way back if things go wrong.
John
-----------------------------
"PellaKen" wrote:
>I ended up turning all dims to "driven", cutting all the sketch geometry out
>
>of the drawing and pasting it back in to get it to start working again. Not
>
>sure why I had to do that.

John Hilgenberg

Re: Frozen circles

John,
Typically when this happens it is because there is a loop in solving the
constraints and dimensions. A loop can happen when you have a dimension
dependent on a dimension which is dependent on the first. When a loop is
detected, solve will shut down. What this means is that you cannot add any
more constraints until the problem is fixed. Open your file and select the
left most vertical line of the top view. Try to drag the line to the right.
You will see some dimensions turn sick. Go to Variable Table. You will see
the values of the dimensions that became sick in the sick color. I deleted
the formula from the first sick dimension (V983) and it fixes the problem.
Most likely you have created a formula that references a dimension, that
references another through a formula, that references the original.
Regards,
Rick B.