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Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Genius
Genius

I'm designing a clamp, consisting of 2 identical components, where one is the exact copy of the other, rotated by 180 degree.

 

So I designed one component, copied it, inserted it into the same *.par-file, rotated and stored it.

If I now import this *.par-file into an assembly, I only get the first component, while the second one (generated by copy/paste/rotate) is completely ignored.

 

I guess I was using a way, which was not foreseen by the programmers and probably it would be better to import the *.par file twice and rotate it within the assembly file.

But I'm surprised by the inconsistent result of my initial operation within the *.par-file. Is there someone, who can explain to me what's going on here? While my operations within the *.par-file might be unconventional, I guess it should work preditably, as it is a possible action in the software.

 

Is there anybody who can explain to me, what's going on here?

I attach a video for illustration.

This video is currently being processed. Please try again in a few minutes.
(view in My Videos)

 

best regards

Hans

15 REPLIES

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Hi there @Hans11,

 

Your video is not able to be played, for some reason.

 

But, on your issue, I think you are going about this wrong......if you want to make an assembly using two instances of the same item, then from inside assembly, just place two instances of the one part, making the relationships that locate it "rotated". [similar to my example assembly image] No need to make another part file to be the second part.

 

2017-12-05.png

Sean Cresswell
Design Manager Streetscape Ltd
Solid Edge ST10 [MP8] Classic [x2 seats]
Windows 10 - Quadro P2000

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Genius
Genius

Dear Sean

 

Yes, I alread added a request why my movie is not displayed in the forum. .... Maybe 11Mb is to big?

 

If I understand You right, You suggest to use the way, i mentioned as the probably better way in my initial post, meaning to do the copy/rotation operation within the *.asm-file, and not within the *.par-file. I agree with You.

 

But I do not understand, why the copy-paste operation in the *.par file created a result looking as expected within the par-file, but completely ignored in the *.asm-file. Do You think this is a bug in SE, on a way, people usually don't use?

 

best regards

Hans

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@Hans11, can you upload the file?.....I would expect the model to be fully represented in Assembly, as it is in the Part environment. With the only reason it is not, possibly relating to the makeup of the model.....perhaps the copy/paste you refer to is a surface [construction] set.

 

Often, it matters a lot, how you intend to use something downstream, as to how you construct a model, be that a monolithic part, or an assembly of parts....so maybe there are better methods to get there, than the path/method you have chosen, and subsequently are struggling with.

Sean Cresswell
Design Manager Streetscape Ltd
Solid Edge ST10 [MP8] Classic [x2 seats]
Windows 10 - Quadro P2000

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Hi @Hans11

 

 

 

besides the issue already mentioned by @SeanCresswell, that from the BOM point of view it makes no sense to copy geometry witihn a part where You need 2 pieces of one and the same aprt in an assmebly structure.

If You think further into this direction, this might result in an part file where You have 4,8,16 copies of the same base geometry instead of using a pattern in ASM.

Your - so I suppose - wanted result should be a BOM showing 16 peices of this part, and not one piece of a part, where You know that there are 16 ccopies inside.

 

So and now let's go to the basic question.

 

You can see the copy witihn Your part, but not in the assembly.

 

So my suppose here is, that the copy only is a construction body rather than a design body.

So the copy is only a surface body and not a volume body.

And this could be the reason for not seeing it in the ASM.

 

Try a "Show all Construction/Surface" from the ASM mode and see wether the second body will be visible then.

 

 



regards
Wolfgang

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Genius
Genius

I checked the *.par-file.

The lower part is quoted in the tree as "draft body (Entwurfskörper in german)" and it is in the PathFinder in the synchronous-path mentioned as "Protrusion1 (Ausprägung1 in german)". If I look into the context menu of the workspace I can tick and untick the display of this original body by activating/disactivating the point "construction body" in the displayed items list.

se17.jpg

 

 

I copied the original body. After I pasted the copy of it, this copy was added in the PathFinder to the Synchronous-path called "Protrusion4 (in german Ausprägung4)". If I look into the context menu of the workspace I can tick and untick the display of this copy by activating/disactivating the point "display surfaces" in the displayed items list.

se18.jpg

 

After importing this *.par file into an assembly, only the lower part is shown.

The visible part is the one, which was mentioned as "construction body" in the path within the *.par-file. The invisble part was mentioned as "surface" in the PathFinder within the *.par-file.

Consequently I tried (following Wolfgangs idea) the display options within the *.asm-file.

When I tick "display surfaces" in the displayed items list of the *.asm-file, the hidden pasted body is shown. That means within the *.asm-file this pasted body is in the "surface" category. The original body is in the category "constructional body" and its display can be ticked/unticked in this section.

 

So to summarize:

The original in the *.par file is a "construction body". The pasted copy is "surface". These cathegories are preserved during the import into the *.asm environment.

The difference in the behaviour in the two files is originated from their different default settings in *.par and *.asm file environments. Obviously by default "surfaces" are displayed in the *.par environment and are by default invisible in the *.asm environment.

 

The confusing in this operation procedure is:

I choose a construcional body in the file and copy/paste it in the same*.par-file.

The display-features of the pasted item are defined by the "surface category", while within the PathFinder it is mentioned as "Protrusion", which sounds like a body not like a surface.

That feels to me being inconsistent.

 

Any ideas about this contradiction?

 

 

 

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

HI @Hans11

 

 

 

a construction body more or less is made for intermediate/temporarily reasons but not for final use.

By the way a construction body also doesn't have any mass and weight.

A constrcution body still is the boundary of that area, but not material is asigned to it.

So all Your physical properties are wrong BTW.

 

You can merge the construction body to the design boody for getting the mirror body half.

But therefoe teh mirror function was build.

 

I only can and I must say, that in taht case You have not used the ssstem as it was thought to be used.

 

You have to change Your strategy totally and keep Yourself to appropriate rules of SE

 

 



regards
Wolfgang

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Genius
Genius

Hi Wolfgang,

 

I'm still a beginner try to learn and I guess I learn a lot trying and finding out, what works, what doesn't work and why it doesn't work with the help of You. Thank You for support.

 

By the way, is there still no way, to switch menu-languages  within SE from german to english? That would make it much easier to formulate the situation. Right now I always have to translate in the hope I find the correct english name for what is in german in my menu? In an older post, some years ago, it seemed to need a complete new software installation from the scratch. Is this still the case?

So in my former post I mis-used the term "ConstructionElement" but I meant "DraftElement". Now I know, both terms exist and are define separate categories. My mistake in translation, sorry.

 

So after generating a cube ...

  • My initial result of the protrusion is found in the PathFinder in "DraftElements" as "DraftElement1". It is further mentioned in the Synchrous tray as FormElements/Protrusion1.
  • From the pasted copy of the original I additionally get a "Protrusion2" in the Synchronous tray.

Thus I would feel, they are of the same category.

But in real, the original (DraftElement and Protrusion1) is displayed if I activate  "display draft elements", the pasted copy of it is shown only if "display surfaces" is true.

 

So the pasted one seems to be just surface, while the initial one is a solid body. That becomes visible, if I create a body which is with a bore hole penetrating it.

 

se19.jpg

 

 

So what idea is responsible for the differences.

It seems a solid body is copied and it is pasted as surfaces (a hollow body), both are treeted accordingly different in the display settings (draft elements and surface). But both are mentioned as Protrusion in the PathFinder.

 

Regarding assigning mass and properties to a body, this is slightly confusing in the manual. When they say "add material" my impression is they mean, volume is added and not cut off. You probably mean to assign a specially defined type material to a geometry, adding physical properties to the geometry this way. I was looking, where to do so and only found it in the assembly environment in the section simulation. Is that the correct point which was meant by You?

 

best regards

Hans

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Hi @Hans11

 

 

 

to give a first answer for a miinor question of You:

 

To change the language froom German to English is possible a lot easier with ST10.

From ST10 on SE is a multilingual package with at least the possibility to change from local to English.

 

I'm not quite sure wether it also could be possible to have the same software running in French, Spanish, etc.

or wether those then will be different isntallation packages, or how to tell SE which other language should be used.

 

 

Until ST10 the way to change the software language was a lot more difficult.

You have to know, that "most" (nearly all) interface text is saved under the ResDLL director 0009

 

So if You once have access to an English 0009 folder You can switch between English and German.

At least this was my method for the last years.

The only minor problem was, to get this 0009 folder in English.

This needed at least one English installtion for copy it from there to other workstations.

 

 

 

 



regards
Wolfgang

Re: Copy-Paste within a *.par-file

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Hi @Hans11

 

 

 

You aslo can differ between them when looking onto the colors.

The violet is the default color for construction elements while design object have the material color.

 

 



regards
Wolfgang