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How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

Attached is a very simple assembly with two sheet metal parts.

 

They are related with 3 planes. 

How  do I make it so that if I edit the size of one part, the other part changes size too.

 

If you open up part B1, there is already a dimension of 13 inside. If you make that 12, it has a flange matching with the end of B2. 

 

How do I set it up so that if I edit that dimension, both B1 and B2 change size?

 

I want to avoid use variables to establish relations between parts, I would like to establish the relations graphically using relations/design intent/mates.

 

Not being able to do this has made me avoid Sync for four years.

 

 

 

11 REPLIES 11

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Genius
Genius

@12GAGE
 See the video.  Notice how within the assembly, I change the selection method to Face Priority rather than Part Priority.  I wasn't sure if you wanted the two faces coplanar or an offset so I did both and showed a couple things you could do.

 

(view in My Videos)

Brian Fritz
Solid Edge Certified Professional
Solid Edge 2019 latest MP

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@12GAGE,  as @Fritz mentioned, you could edit both parts interactively from the assembly if they are both Synch parts.  Alternatively, you can use Inter-Part Copy to copy the face of part A into Part be and then create a Face Relatinship between them so that when the face in part A moves, the relared face in part B will also move.

 

With both parts where you want them in relation to one another (B1 at 12"),  In Place Activated into part B2 from the assembly and on the Home tab in the Clipboard section you will find a command called Create Inter-Part Relationships.  It will ask for the driving part so pick B1.  It will then find coPlanar relationships between the parts.  Deselect which ones you don't want and click Save.  It will then create Inter-Part copies of the faces from B1 that will be related and create persistant face relations to them.  Save and return to the assembly.  Now when you edit B1 to 13", B2 will change to match.

 

Attaching the modified files for your review (ST10).



Ken
Production: SE 2019 MP8, Testing: SE 2020
http://Grundey.blogspot.com

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

Uusing inter part copy would make ripping the part out of one assembly and inserting the part into another assembly a hasstle. Being able to move parts from one re-sizable assembly to another is the reason I am considering sync. Moving ordered part with relations to assembly planes and other sheet metal parts is what I have tried to do with existing modles but the process is unweldy. 

 

I spent some time today with GTAC and we determined there is no method of linking one sync part to another in the assembly environment in a way that makes one part re-size from another.

 

The example is just a very simple case to find the solution. In reality I would have up to 15 parts being dirven from a single dimension + part thickness & radius of both parent and child parts. Oonce all set up, Then I want to rip out every part of of  that assembly and re-use them in other assemblies. ALL assemblies are re-sizable tanks. The reason I don't want to re-model is to preserve the imbeaded variable work in the files and to preserve the drafting work for each file. The diagonal part involves about 10 variables to get everything done right and the setup takes time.

 

Right now I have to re-create that work in 100's of files because it too difficult to copy the part and re-relate to a new assembly.

 

Rather than make a movie, I have attached two screen shots(plate 1 plane 2) where the only difference is the movement of a single control (plane in an ordered parts assembly). I added a 3rd screen shot (plane iso) in an iso view to give an idea of the 3rd dimension.

 

Just to show the point, I attached two more screen shots (draft variables, & part variables) with the variable work going on that I don't want to re-do for every time I need the part in a new assembly.

 

Next time I have a window to figure new stuff out (I figure two months from now)

I will have to dig into inter part copies and see if that can reduce the uncertanty of moving an assenbly diven part from one assembly to another.

 

 

 

 

 

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

I learned the hard way that driving sync parts from a variable table has many pitfalls that ordered doesn't. The main reason being is that there are so many design intent on/off combinations which affect the way a part changes. And often different parts require different settings.

 

When you edit a variable, whether you're in the part or using the peer variable interface you have no clue what the DI settings are. If you are in a part you have to click on a face or edit a dim to see the settings, change them if necessary, go back to the table, change the variable and see if it works. If you're in an assembly there is no other way except to open a part and look, then change and hope (not hope and change). That's problematic if you ask me.

 

Unfortunately DI settings are global per SE session. So you HAVE to keep them in mind and you have to be able to see them to know what they are. And you HAVE to closely watch the model. Especially if different parts require different settings. I wish you could save DI settings with a part so you could pre-set the settings required for each part.

 

Then if your assys/parts are large with fine detailed areas at the ends and little going on in the long span between them you can't really see the results of the changes unless you zoom way in and do detailed examinations. Sync really requires that you are able to immediately see the result of any change so that you know it went as desired. That's why IMO the demo models are rather blocky, compact, prismatic, not very finely detailed examples.

 

Additionally, you need to control every face either with explicit dimensions or constraints or hope that DI will do its thing correctly. Good luck with that. As the complexity of features grows so does the number of PMI dimensions cluttering up the screen and obscuring your ability to see what's going on. But you can't just turn them off because they are part of the evidence that things changed correctly or not. There have been several instances where I've been bopping along thinking sync is so cool and then later, when I look at a model close up or get errors in a draft I notice, for example, an almost imperceptible non-90 degree angle between two faces. Or a very small feature has been consumed by other faces (a feature of sync I sometimes don't particulary like, then sometimes I do). Too small to see as you make changes but a result of not having all the many factors tuned properly -- DI settings, dimensions, relationships. A near impossible task as parts become more complex and finely detailed. The eye just isn't capable of seeing some on-screen changes. Especially if there are many small features to babysit.

Ordered at least allows you to subdivide many of the controls within different sketches, faces don't consume faces of other features when they become coincident, and has the added benefit when it comes to variable driving of not being dependent on whatever DI settings which happen to be currently set.

Bruce Shand
SE2019 MP8 - Insight - Win10 - K4200

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

The problem is not really the details of how a Sync part works. It's the details of how Sync parts can inter relate at the assembly level. Live rules are not available in the assembly environment.

 

Sync vs ordered. I don't really care what I use. Whatever allows me to accomplish a mixture of 3 things at the same time.

1. The assembly is re-sizable from 3 to 6 controls (planes for me in orderd) that in turn can effect 5 to 100 parts size.

2. Each part can be ripped out of one assembly and re-used in another.

3. The drafting work for the re-used part is also re-used.

 

Note that the drafting work also includes variable with with links between part and part draft. There is also variable link between parts and assemly draft for disiplay of information in the draft.

 

My question is, what is the path of least resistance to get that accomplished. Currently my path of least resistance is to model each part inside each assembly and draft each part inside the assembly draft so that I can have that assembly group of files (Assembly, parts, all drafts) be copied, resized, and reused quickly. The down fall is that I have needed to model and draft the same part over 100 times. So now I want to find a way to move parts from one assembly to another to avoid that re-work.

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

I don't know how you could have a parts size driven from things in the assembly and be able to easily take it from that assembly and then use it in another and have those relations easily editable.


Although, you could possibly from the top level use copy/paste of variables from one part or from the assembly, paste the variable link into the part using peer variables, and then if you wanted to use that part in another assembly you could simply redefine that variable link  by using copy variable link function and then repaste it into the peer variables.

Solid Edge 2019
Windows 7 Professional
Nvidia K2200 & Intel Xeon
"You're doing it wrong"

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@12GAGE wrote:

The problem is not really the details of how a Sync part works. It's the details of how Sync parts can inter relate at the assembly level. Live rules are not available in the assembly environment.


The live rules or design intent interface is not available in the assembly environment but they definitely affect sync parts being changed in the assembly environment.

Bruce Shand
SE2019 MP8 - Insight - Win10 - K4200

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Honored Contributor
Honored Contributor

"I don't know how you could have a parts size driven from things in the assembly and be able to easily take it from that assembly and then use it in another and have those relations easily editable."

 

That is the core of my problem.

 

Being able to re-size all the parts in an assembly take priority over everything for me.

 

Every day I have to adjust tank sizes from existing designs and add an 1" here and remove 2" there. I move two planes and 400 dimensions in the draft automatically update. 15 min of clean up and I have a new set of 30 pages of sheet metal prints in about 30 min that took a day to draft the first time.

 

Now I'm trying to figure out how to not model and draft the same parts 50's of times for each re-sizable assembly.

I have yet to find a method that is faster than re-model and re-draft.

 

I'm managing about 50 different tank designs each in 2 to 20 common sizes and every day a new custom size is needed. Every tank could be carbon stainless or aluminum and configured for 5 common fluids (porting) Each tank consists of 5 to 50 pieces of sheet metal depending on size (1000 Gallon tanks for trailers have tons of baffles)

So the permutations are huge, like in the millions. But only about 500 permutation (other than size) actually get used.

 

As far as variables go. I have not even found a way to take 50 variable names an get then into the variable table at a single shot. I have to type every veriable name in manually.

 

 

Re: How does one make two sync parts change size together?

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

 


@12GAGE wrote:

 

As far as variables go. I have not even found a way to take 50 variable names an get then into the variable table at a single shot. I have to type every veriable name in manually.

 


Templates?

 

 

Bruce Shand
SE2019 MP8 - Insight - Win10 - K4200