Planes in Assy vs Part

Phenom
Phenom

I had another thread that didn't work about planes. This is a different tact.

 

Why do planes in assemblies work differently than plans in part files? Can any explain that?

 

In specific. Planes in Assemblies are specific to +-. Planes in parts are + both ways.

The Y Axis +direction in assemblies is reverse of the arrow, the Z and X axis in assemblies are in the direction of the arrow.

 

Also, the planes in assemblies actually are more confusing than that. The planes that show by default work differently than the plane that are tied to the origin (small planes vs big planes)

 

When trying to make 1000's of file in the same orientation....this is a huge pain.

 

Why are they not all the same?

8 REPLIES

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Esteemed Contributor
Esteemed Contributor

I'm not following what you are saying... I see no difference in behavior of planes in Assemblies vs. Parts and I'm not following your +- vs. ++.  I see that in Part, Ordered vs. Synch planes look different, but coordinate wise work the same...


Thanks,
Ken

Production: ST9 MP10
Testing: ST10 MP1

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Esteemed Contributor
Esteemed Contributor

@Ken,

 

If you watch the readout in the ribbon asm shows negative on one side of the plane, positive on the other as you drag the plane. In part the value is always positive. And indeed the direction relative to coordinate arrows is different in Y than in X and Z

 

When typing in the value:

In assembly Y - is with the coordinate arrow. -X and -Z are opposite the coordinate arrow.

In part X, Y, and Z - is opposite the arrow.

 

Not sure what the practical ramifications are if any. It is weird though.

 

@12GAGE, I'm not sure what you mean by this: "Also, the planes in assemblies actually are more confusing than that. The planes that show by default work differently than the plane that are tied to the origin (small planes vs big planes)"

They seem to act in the same (weird) way as the default planes when you generate a parallel plane.

Bruce Shand
ST9 MP10 - Insight - Win10 - K4200

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Phenom
Phenom

I work with assembly planes driving everything (sheet metal parts). When you start a new assembly file, There are actually two sets of planes. One set that can be turned on an off. And another set associated with the coordinate system that gets used when the typical planes are turned off.

 

The two different sets of planes work differently. the y Axis is flipped +vs -

 

The practical problem with this is I desire all files to have the same orientation of X+, Y+, Z+

 

Because I was not aware of the assembly plane "y" "flip" between the two sets of assembly planes, all of my file are set up with +y down instead of up if you look at plan perspective.

 

If they plan to fix/change this I want to know. I was also like to know why it was done this way, even if it was just a mistake.

 

To see what I'm talking about. Start a new assembly file. Turn on planes add a parallel plane to X Y Z at +1

 

Then turn off planes and add a parallel plane starting from the planes you get from the coordinate axis. Add planes at +1 X, Y Z.

 

You will find the +1Y is on the other side of the other +1Y

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Esteemed Contributor
Esteemed Contributor

I get it and see now how it might cause problems. As I said, it's weird at best, error causing at worst. Seems like a sloppy bit of coding. Probably been that way for years I'm guessing. I wonder if there are any consequent effects that cause development to ignore the issue?

 

Have you ever filed an IR?

 

Bruce Shand
ST9 MP10 - Insight - Win10 - K4200

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Phenom
Phenom

No IR yet. I'm in process of making some movies that will be used for about 20 IR's/ER's at once. Also I have already filed about 30 ER's. As time goes on, I'm trying to only file ER's that are very clear what and why.

 

The consequences of this one are HUGE. it could effect 100's of other sets of code.

the ONLY way they could fix it is with a translation during a revision of ST, like when it goes to ST 10 or 11 would be the soonest if I get the ER's in soon and they accept them.

 

Really this post is asking the question "Why is it this way?"......I don't see any reason for it other than an error.

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Esteemed Contributor
Esteemed Contributor

@12GAGE

 

"The consequences of this one are HUGE. it could effect 100's of other sets of code."

 

GTAC told you this?

 

"I'm trying to only file ER's that are very clear what and why."

 

That seems wise.

Bruce Shand
ST9 MP10 - Insight - Win10 - K4200

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Phenom
Phenom

No they have not told me anything, I'm making a huge assumption based on my experience of programming and CAD.  Think about it. Any routines that needs to use a plane have to use those number to do it's job.

Re: Planes in Assy vs Part

Esteemed Contributor
Esteemed Contributor

I just wonder if it's limited to creation of parallel planes from the base planes. I would think (guess) code would use the coordinate system instead of base reference planes and since the coordinate systems, unlike ref planes, behave consistently there may be few if any ramifications. Of course, neither one of us are qualified to say.

 

And I'm going to revise my analysis of plane creation in parts. In parts the value shown in the ribbon is absolute, independent of sign, but wholly dependent on cursor position in the window. When you put in a value in part and hit return or rmb click the system waits for a direction cue from cursor position.

In assembly the value is independent of cursor postion. If you put in a value and hit return or rmb click the plane goes in immediately in a positive or negative direction (with opposite logic for the Y axis) and the command is finished.

Bruce Shand
ST9 MP10 - Insight - Win10 - K4200