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Sheet Metal Gage Table

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Hi,

 

  I have searched and found no informations on how to fill the Excel Gage Table file.

Right now, I'm using Single Sheet Metal template files for each Material/thickness, and I think the use of the Excel Gage table file would be easier to work it, than having over 50 files to deal with.

 

Also, How to use it when I'll be done with my Excel file?

 

thanks

13 REPLIES

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

There is lot's of information on that.

 

First off, look at the existing excel file, it explains a few things. Use it as a template.

 

I attached what I'm using this week. I'm just about to update with more material thicknesses and more specific bend radius. Just about to add two versions of each gage so that the right bend radius is there for two different machines we use to bend it.

 

My file is set up with the following assumptions.

K=0.33 for all materials up to 165 then K=0.29 past 165 deg.

 

In general, My table has extra data. I don't really need to control K varrying with the bend radius, but the format is set up so that you can get that done.

 

I also attached another file I used to help train myself on exactly how bend radius is calculated. It a collection of stuff I found on the net.

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

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Well, thanks a lot sharing your expertise, but I'm lost with all those numbers.

I'm no expert at bending, but had quite a problem understanding the Excel file.

I've made a capture of it and you'll see arrows pointing @ numbers that really messes me.

(The main reason I don't understand the Excel file)

 

And the neutral factor that seems different that we already tested (Per our testing, .44 would have been the best fit for our flat pattern).

 

How come only those angles appears in your tables (5, 45, 90, 160, 165 & 180)?

Do I have to enter every possible angle that we are dealing with?

We need every possible angle from 0 to 180 Degrees!!


We also have different Radius on the Dies we used (from 1/8" to 3"), different Vs, different kind of steal (44W, Hardox, Weldox, etc. with material thickness ranging from 16Gage up to 1 1/4"!)

So how can I make it work with all the possibilities we need for our bendings?

I also need more detail on to link the file for every material/thickness we use.

 

thanks for your help.

 

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

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Sorry it took me a while to get back. I had  meeting today with a Siemens sheet metal person to file some ER's. Then I also have my own Engineering and drafting work to get done each day.

 

If you are new to all the sheet metal stuff, I hope you understand the concept of K. K=the % distance through the thickness where the neutral axis is located. Outside of the neutral axis the material is in tension. Inside it is in compression. Hence the term "neutral axis" where the forces are neutral. At first thought and as you start bending, this is the center of the thickness. As you bend more, the neutral axis travels from the center closer to the inside of the bend.

 

All of the different angles are not really needed. But I'm not sure if you can get away with a single column fo data (why I have them all the same). I started with various K's for each angle, but made them the same in the long run, but left all the columns in place because I didn't know better.

 

I started out trying to vary with angles, but it was not practical. For my situation, My goal was to have folding dimensions that would exactly match information in the program that runs our folding machine. Once I figured out I had to calibrate the folding machine to achieve the radius I wanted, then I just had to pick a radius, and use that for both the folder and the cad system. The result was matching numbers. Now the fab people trust the drawings becasue the number match.

 

The reason the options for K varying is angles is available, is that for some materials, K varies as you bend more or less. Most people find that K=0.33 is great for mild steel until you get close to 180 degs, then K=0.28 or .29 is more appropriate. This is actually depending on the grain structure, and varies depending on the grain, but nobody goes there unless they half too. (perhaps ASME pressure vessels it would matter)

 

In theory, K = 0.5 at very low bend angles (like 5 Deg). In practice, each tool has its own quarks and starts messing the metal up to add a bend. Accounting for all the details is almost importable. Using some value of K between 1/3 and 1/2 is all that is important to get close. 

 

 

anyway. back to practical issues. I'm just about to modify my material so that I have one for each steel type, thickness, and Machine's radius.

 

So for example, 12 Gage mild steel is my most common. I'm going to have two different material for that. One for our folder where R=0.11. and One for our break machine where R =5/32 (with a specific die). You will end up creating a material in the bend table for every radius. This is done to avoid manually editing R's.

 

The numbers at the top of each column relates to the degrees bend, but I think it's in radian units (3.14 radians = 180 degrees). But I'm not sure. I had the same question but never found a hard answer because it did not matter. (I ddin't want to vary K with angles)

 

I did some more homework to answer this right: Only a single column in needed unless you want K to vary as the bend angle increases.

 

 

The Origami.xls file was just a collection of research I did when getting back into folding sheet metal.

 

There are a few sheet metal terms that help make sense of it all:

Bend deduction = materail removed from flat pattern to accout for the bend radius

Bend allowance = the material from start to end of a bend (tangent lines in SE)

Ouside setback = Thickness + Bend radius.

 

Let say you want a 10 gage angle that 1" X 1" with a 1/4" radius.

10 gage is 0.1345" thick

Using formulas that are in the Origami.xls file, you can determine everything you need to lay out complex sheet metal.

 

One of the strange things about sheet metal. You MUST know what bend radius the machine wants to use. You don't get to dictate this unles you can program the folding machine. This is one of the inputs to the CAD system. In the case of SE, it's the bend table where we started.

 

Break machines (more common than swipe by folding) bending radius is dependent on what die they use. You will need to look up each machine you use. The start of the Oragomi file is a typical bending table for a break machine. The values in tha table are actually Tons required to perform the bends. It's the V-die sizes and radius values that are important for desining.

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

Thanks for all the details in your reply,... I knew a little bit about the "K" concept.

 

But, even though you explained a lot of things that would still help me understand more about bending, this did not help me enough, and I got no practical answers to my own questions that would let me know How to fill the spreadsheet. :-(

 

Not that I want to know what numbers to put in every needed columns/rows, but in your spreadsheet file, like in the section *200*, I don't understand the numbers next to Angle.

They seemed different depending on the thickness of the material.

 

Well in the "10 Ga-CS", here are your numbers...

0.0672 - 0.1076 - 0.1345 - 0.1614 - 0.2152 - 0.2690

 

in the "12 Ga-CS"...

0.0523 - 0.0836 - 0.1046 - 0.1255 - 0.1673 - 0.2092

 

What are those numbers?

How come they are different within the same row?

How come they are different depending on the thickness of the material?

Where do they come from?

 

Why 1 column is not enough?

I need more informations about this, even though

"The numbers at the top of each column relates to the degrees bend"

 

 

An expertise from a Solid Edge expert would be appropriate to let us know more about it.

How come there is no clear explanations on What we need to know on How to the use the Excel file, and have more detail informations on the numbers we need to enter in every cell?

Why do we have to do our own research to find out what fits best the spreadsheet numbers and bending machine?

 

 

Per the angles, are they representative in the spreadsheet (5, 45, 90, 160, 165 & 180 Degree)?

How are they used within Solid Edge in your spreadsheet. Even though your numbers are the same on the same row, if you would have to deal with an angle of 30 Degree, what number would be used for the bending within Solid Edge since it does not appear in the spreadsheet?

 

 

"One of the strange things about sheet metal. You MUST know what bend radius the machine wants to use. You don't get to dictate this unles you can program the folding machine. This is one of the inputs to the CAD system. In the case of SE, it's the bend table where we started."

 

  Our machine doesn't decide what to use. We decide the appropriate Die to use depending on the Material thickness. For example, we would never try to use a R1/4" Die on a 1" Thick Metal plate.

 

  The bend radius depends on the Dies that is used to bend the material.

We currently use those Dies...

R3/32, R1/8", R1/4", R1/2", R3/4", R1", R1 1/4", R12,5mm, R20mm, R30mm, R50mm

 

  And our bending machine is programmable. We have a Bystronic and a LVD press brake that can be programmed on the machine itself or via a software installed on a Desktop Computer.

 

Well, I greatly appreciate the time you've taken to help me clarify more about the bending process, now I need more informations on How to fill in the cells ;-)

 

thanks

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

 A single colum is enough if you don't want want K to vary as the bend angle increases. I created thoes file formats long ago and don't remember the specifics on the units & format of that number because I decided it did not matter.

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

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After reading this, i'm still in doubt about gage table, as i keep not understand the diference of Bend Radius (orange) and Radius (Purple).

2016_10_11_14_20_55_Original_Gagetable.xls_Compatibility_Mode_Excel.png

 

Can anyone help to clarify this?

 

Thanks in advance.

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

I am after this very same information. I also didn't understand Relief Depth and Relief Width. Are they the same as flange length and flange width respectfully?

 

-M@

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

Relief depth and width refer to the small cutout that SE will place at the end of a bent flange on a sheet.  12" long edge and a 2" wide flange, SE will create a "bend relief" there, but only if you bend is "material inside" or "material outside"  This just lets you create a default for each material size.

Re: Sheet Metal Gage Table

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<facepalm> I should have known that, now that I look at it again. Thanks so much Craig.

 

Any thoughts on the purple section noted by VFaria in the image above?

 

-M@