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Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@Trikefreakwrote:

 

I know insight wasn't a cheap option back then, so I can guess what teamcenter is going to cost....


Actually Insight was a cheap option. As in free not accounting for any setup and ongoing maintenance costs. But, like BiDM, the software was free. And Siemens support for Insight was included in regular maintenance. The need for which is pretty minimal. But it is a minimal sort of file management system which is actually the perfect level for our operation. We have no automated document workflow needs, no ERP, no ECO process and no production planning based on it, no official purchasing dept., no manufacturing engineering. Pretty old school. But low overhead.

Bruce Shand
SE2019 MP5 - Insight - Win10 - K4200

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

@Trikefreak - I wasn't pissed but annoyed that my comment was dismissed as a sales attempt instead of my opinion on the subject. I'm not in sales, I'm on the technical team getting my hands on the system and setting it up per clients requirements but helping them improve processes when needed too. I know the good, the bad and the ugly. 

 

As for this notch information, there could be many ways to record this info into TC. Classification is my first thought but that is additional cost. Or having a property to store specific info on the Item Revision would be another possibility. Even putting a note in a description field to search on later could work too.

 

I can give you a real example that I know improved a process by using Teamcenter and overall helped the entire company. But because this was 4-5 years ago and 2 jobs ago, I can't give you hard numbers or dollars because I didn't keep that data when I left Robbins. 

 

Paper release process - filled out by hand and routed (by foot, email or Fedex) from Engineering to Document Control to Project Manager to Production Control. I had to propose and prove that I could do this process in Teamcenter faster and better. What I remember of the metrics is that the average for this process, because papers got lost or forgotten, took easily 25 days with extremes to over 100 days (worst one I seen was 231 days). This process in Teamcenter would average 3-7 days because we could see at any point who had the release and ask them why they were holding it up. Sure, there were the occasional releases that were slower to process. But I ran weekly reports per project on what was open and it would tell management WHO had it and how long. Nobody wanted their name tied to something for more than 5 days! I also reported out monthly completed releases and timing that was reviewed montly by all upper management. This process in TC kept things from slipping through the cracks and not getting ordered. All releases were easy for the entire company to find in TC and review details without emailing or trying find a hard copy. 

 

Jamie

Jamie Griffis | PLM Solution Architect | Engineering USA

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

@Trikefreak   - no worries on pissing anyone off... I think you are reading passion not pissed off.

 

I think what you are seeing in this thread is that PDM is a MUCH deeper consideration that "Teamcenter Yes or NO?".  Thus my earlier comments to investigate PDM as an overall concept instead of Teamcenter as a software solution.

 

Switching from non-managed to managed is a Process.   Larger companies spend literally years to plan out the process.  As @uk_dave pointed out, there are processes,  your processes, that need to be evaluated and re-evaluated.

 

And, just to add to the confusion...  ask yourself...  what is the difference between and what will our implementation strategy be for PDM vs. PLM vs. ERP.   All these tools (processes) need to talk to one another! 

 

In my experience, there is a cost to implement PDM.   Planning, the Software, licensing, implementation, new IT infrastructure hardware, training.   Yes, there will be a cost...   the question I might suggest is more about ROI than cost.  ROI might be realized differently to a different business.  Maybe not in dollars but in time to market and design cycle time...  sure you can attribute a dollar # to a faster cycle time but being 1st to market in some industry spaces is something else altogether.  

 

sorry for your frustration...  but welcome to the club...  anyone with any experience with PDM / PLM dirt on their hards knows fully how you fell and what lays ahead...

 

Keep asking your question!!!  Fight for the answers and not what you believe to be marketing!!!  you will have BIG descisions to make and FACTs are very important!

 

Matt Johnson
Solid Edge Certified Professional
Solid Edge 2019 (SEEC) - Production
NX12 (Tc Integration)
Teamcenter 10.1.7

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Legend
Legend
"So, on a slow day like my example, assume $200/hr (salary+benefits rate) * 1.5 hrs * 5 days = $1500 / wk."

Dammit, you looking for help? I'd make a sacrifice and take $130/hr (times 45% for benefits gets your $200 rate), being an engineer, designer, drafter, or data entry!

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

$200/hr is base salary + benefits + overhead.  It's that last one that drives up the cost; manufacturing overhead is more, administration is less, but I'm not actually privy to the real numbers so I just picked a round number for easy math.  No, we don't pay anyone $130/hr base salary.  Nice try, though.  I don't even think the CEO makes that much.

 

But, if you have recent TC experience, and know more about the application than I do, I am hiring a PLM Admin.

https://careers.nammotalley.com/


____________________________________
--Scott Wertel, P.E.

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Phenom
Phenom

I know that everyone is focusing in on Teamcenter since that was the original question. But if you are looking for the basic vault capabilities and basic "workflow" and basic search you don't need Teamcenter! You could use the built-in data management- It's free and comes with Solid Edge.

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Legend
Legend

I asked some questions, and it looks like the biggest reason for considering teamcenter, is for other groups to find information related to the design group. I can see the benefits in this way.

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Phenom
Phenom

@Trikefreak I am glad you can identify the benefits. As mentioned having effective and efficient workflows is key for PDM.

 

Built-in PDM is a good starting point as it can force all the "good habits" and help ensure that the data you are currently creating can be "imported" more easily into a more robust PLM system.

 

The built-in data management is all based on Microsoft functionality (for the most part). You have no database overhead that comes with the majority of PDM systems on the market today.

 

Product Lifecycle Management is for the business not for a single department. As the creator/originator of the core CAD data- that is at the heart of manufacturing companies- you are the first logical point to managing data. 

Yes, it exposes, organizes, and manages your data- and much much more.

 

PLM, to me, is not a software but a way to run a business. PLM utilities allow me to run my business effectively and with visibility to all sorts of data and dashboards.

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@RyanMwrote:

I know that everyone is focusing in on Teamcenter since that was the original question. But if you are looking for the basic vault capabilities and basic "workflow" and basic search you don't need Teamcenter! You could use the built-in data management- It's free and comes with Solid Edge.


What is your opinion as to numbers of CAD users with BiDM? I keep hearing numbers like 5, 6, 7. We have 9.

And then there are the Windows indexing problems continually mentioned here.

Bruce Shand
SE2019 MP5 - Insight - Win10 - K4200

Re: Teamcenter - yes or no?

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom

@bshand hopefully the Windows indexing problems are [finally] resolved -- we have made fixes in maintenance packs and to date we are not seeing the same calls coming through GTAC related to this.