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show and edit face IDs.

Phenom
Phenom

When I edit a part that has dozens, if not hundreds, of where used and wind up performing an edit that changes the face ID I very much wish I could see the face IDs in the model (like balloon call outs on a parts list in a print only maybe as PMI call outs "layer" that I could turn on and off.) Also, would be extremely cool to edit the face ID.

 

Also, if maybe in the assembly environment, maybe just on the relationship manager window, could show the face IDs involved in the relationship. 

 

This way when the change gets a little messy (or simply fixing a screw that was modeled full thread and is not) and faces get new IDs that perform the same function, I could fix all the broken relationships in all the where used back at the model where the problem started.

 

Does this make sense?

 

Am I the only person that wishes this could happen?

 

Does anyone else edit models that have been around for 20 years and are used in too many assemblies to fix manually?

 


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10 REPLIES 10

Re: show and edit face IDs.

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

@bnemec wrote:

Does anyone else edit models that have been around for 20 years and are used in too many assemblies to fix manually?

 


I do; and yes it is very time consuming task then to fix all the relationships.

Are you sure that the problem would be fixed just by changing the face ID ?

 

I would be very happy if such tools would exists

 

As expented the face ID it is a readonly property so it is not an option to write a macro to change it

Re: show and edit face IDs.

Phenom
Phenom

 

Are you sure that the problem would be fixed just by changing the face ID ?

 


No, I'm not sure. AFAIK, the mate and axial just reference a face id ID the "assembly body" of the part. You raise a good point though.  Other relationships would likely need other IDs fixed as well, such as points and lines

I'm probably off on my implementation concept. I maybe should have just asked if anyone else here would use a tool that allowed fixing missing face relationship at the part level, where the problem started, instead of fixing the symptom in all of the assemblies. 

 

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Re: show and edit face IDs.

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom

This is why there is some merit to using coordinate systems to assemble occurrences with, especially when dealing with standard parts.  

Re: show and edit face IDs.

Phenom
Phenom
Agreed, some merit. The trade offs do not seem to merit the practice in our use case. That is what lead me to wonder are we the only users of SE that have long lived parts with many uses that also constrain based on part geometry.

We do not have standard parts, or the vast majority of our parts are standard parts; depends on how one looks at it.

Many of our assemblies move; actually all of them should have the ability except for weldments.


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Re: show and edit face IDs.

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

@bnemec We also have long lived parts and sometimes struggle with this.

 

I think there is a better solution in that Assembly Relationships could use some work in the "healing" algorithms that find a compatible face/edge/point based on proximity and spatial orientation, and there are also some modeling operations that should not discard element ID's and create new ones.

 

For instance if you take a protruded block that has been positioned in the assembly with some face relationships and then you edit the block from a single sided protrusion extent to a bi-directional extent all the face ID's are destroyed and recreated thus causing one or more relationships to fail in the assy, but all you did from a user perspective is shift the resulting cube on the profile plane and all six sides still remain intact.

 

Why not just reuses the face ID's and then the assy relationships will survive?

 

I would much rather improve the code behind the scenes to do these repairs automatically than have the user burdened with this...



Ken
Production: SE 2019 MP8, Testing: SE 2020
http://Grundey.blogspot.com

Re: show and edit face IDs.

Phenom
Phenom

@KennyG  I'm torn; I do not want to disagree with you, but I'm not convinced that the self healing could be robust enough.  I agree that asking the user to do the extra task would be tedious.  It seems that there are more and more editing abilities of the part from an assembly as the years go by, adding the ability to "rename" the reference in the part to match what the relationship object is looking for goes in line with that.  At least in my mind... (insert roll eye emoji)

 

To make it simpler for user, could it be parallelled to adding a hole in the assembly.  The user can decide if the hole is an assembly feature or actually edits the part. Coming from our usage that is a lot of power and really points out the need for a managed environment, but I digress.  Could we sort of copy that to fixing a relationship that has missing geometry reference? 

I go edit the relation, select the new face, point, etc. that I want to use then could it ask; do you want to edit the assembly to match the geometry ID in part, or would you like to rename the geometry you just selected in the part to match what the relationship was looking for.  Just like adding a hole in an assembly, do you want to edit the assembly or do you want the change to take place in the part file?  In my day-to-day, that ability would be a huge time saver.  It would also open the door to fixing a bunch of old poorly modeled parts that are trapped in their ugly state.


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Re: show and edit face IDs.

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor
@bnemec I see what you are saying. Maybe both are needed. There are edits performed on parts that should not be creating new face IDs, and there are edits where that is unavoidable. I have to say it, but having a system where the part knows it has assembly relationships to a particular face would be ideal because as you edited the part, it would them know if the edit would break the relationship. It really means everything is in a database similar to the direction Catia V6 went.


Ken
Production: SE 2019 MP8, Testing: SE 2020
http://Grundey.blogspot.com

Re: show and edit face IDs.

Gears Phenom Gears Phenom
Gears Phenom

A big step forward would be the ability to redefine the old Face with the new Face in all failed relationship and not keep fixing one by one.

 

Example:

  1. The face of a part for some reason is changed
  2. This face is commonly used to costrain the part in assembly
  3. In the assembly there is multiple occourences of that part with failed relationship due to face change
  4. To fix all the relationship you need to redefine the old face with the new face for every single relationship
  5. Ideal would be to just say the old failed face A now it is the new face B

 

Does it make a sense ?

Re: show and edit face IDs.

Phenom
Phenom

@Fiorini , I can see how that would help very much in cases where there is high occurence count and few where used. I assume it could be much simpler to implement just search the assembly relationships for for that part and ID combination then change them all.  

 

@KennyG , I see what you mean about some edits that shouldn't change geometry IDs ( or at lest seem that they shouldn't) then some edits will obviously change and that is completely understandable.  The case the prompted my post was a sheet metal part that has many relations to the top face of the main tab, I made a cutout and added a bend to produce an internal tab.  My assemblies were completely trashed, everything was broken.  I couldn't figure out what had happend.  I started investigating and noticed some relationships that should have been to the top face of the main tab were now going to the face of the little flange I added.  Turns out SE renamed the large face and kept the ID for the top face of the little flange I added.  Once I realized that I was able to identify the relationshps that were the root of the issue and fix them.  The only reason I thought to look for that was based on what I learned in a little venture I had in the API to enumerate faces in parts as I was at one time considering indexing cylinders and faces of our parts to assist in finding parts.  I have to put a plug in here for Mr. Newell's "Spy for Solid Edge" program as I've gained much from using it.

 

Digressing a bit more:

     In my experience, little things like this may be straight forward in simple assemblies; but can sometimes get quirky when there are FOA, Alternate Assemblies, patterns, mirrors, clones, duplicates...  Then considering a family of parts or part copies, how are geometry IDs handled through those?  The implementation of various improvements sometimes interfere with other improvements, so I try to keep that in mind.  Ie. the simplest solution that works in probably the best.  I don't know which would be least intrusive as my understanding of the inner workings of SE don't even scratch the surface.

     Since there's only three or four of us commenting on this out of all the users that peruse the forums , I'm getting the feeling that I'm in a minority when it comes to this specific problem.


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