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Re: the new ST9 application button

Gears Esteemed Contributor Gears Esteemed Contributor
Gears Esteemed Contributor

Hi,



I think, the new interface mainly was build to correlate to the current Microsoft Office interface.

 

And BTW this is sometihng You cann't discuss to have or not, You simply have it to exacpt and to use.

We can can talk wther the old office UI was better, smarter, easier or not.

Fact is, that after a time of use it man can find it a little bit more ordered and grouped, functions and features are - maybe - a little bit more intuitive arranged, and so on.

 

Or you also can feel, that it will not be like that, more the otherway.

 

I personally - and a personal mind is something everybody may and must have, - I personally like the common and MS like UI rigth from the first days of SE, when we started at 1995.

At thos times this was such a big difference to any other CAD program, what we see as one of the greatest highlights of the product.

It looks like Office!

 

 

And in the same way we had to learn the new Offcie UI with 2013, 2015 365 and son on, and Yes, we were searching for certain office function quit a time, but at the end, we like it and feel familar with it.

And I think we will to it similar with the SE UI accroding to Office 365

 

I totally agree to everybody here, that there is one single issue which must be comply:

Speed and no waiting times.

 

For me personally there is another big issue with the new UI:

 

Whene ever SE is started or a new doc is opened, the help page from path finder pops up for a couple of seconds before it moves to the sidebar again.

 

This makes me nervous!

regards
Wolfgang

Re: the new ST9 application button

Phenom
Phenom

Sorry to “flog the down horse” but I’m signing this list.

 

@hawcad, I appreciate your post; however I must disagree that modern UI are what they are and there’s nothing we can do about it. My personal opinion is that Siemens has the ability to do whatever they want with a UI. They can choose to listen to their customers or choose to do whatever trips their fancy, I’m going to hope that they listen to their customers. However, you are dead right in that we must learn to use what we are given after all, it’s not like the companies we work for can just switch CAD systems because we do not like the UI.

 

@Imics, So the solution to an added feature or functionality is for the users who, for the most part are busy using the tool to do their job, to spend time setting up new menus to make it feel like it was before we upgraded?  That makes no sense at all.

 

The quick access bar is handy, but I have about ten buttons that I want on it in every environment and I'm still adding those buttons to new environments.  Can we get a base quick bar that doesn't change with work environment?  Another waste of time to get the UI set up to some level of proficiency that will need to be redone with the next release. Fortunately our CAD admin here likes to skip releases.  I'm glad my spaceball has 12 buttons on it.

 

Why does it feel like most of the changes are done to give a "new appeal" instead of robust functionality? It has the hallmark signs of marketing being in charge of how the software looks instead of people who need it to do their jobs choosing how it works. Please brag up the improved functions over visual appeal. Time spent improving the reliability of adjustable assemblies for example would be well spent.

 

Maybe next time go ahead with all the fancy features, but don't make them default.  There are videos galore for people to learn about new functionality, don't make us go hunting for the options to get back to where we are proficient.  If there is some real added functionality that requires changed to the GUI for it to work properly that would be different. I suppose the changes may be helpful for some sector of users for their line of work, I don’t know.

 

Not to go off topic, but I would like to mention a few improvements that I am grateful for.

- Tabbed window are back! Thank goodness!

- keyboard shortcuts still work. I’m using them a lot more since the ST6 – ST9 transition. Like ctrl-n and ctrl-o.

- 3D sketch environment!

- adding the material to the PathFinder is kind of nice.

 

 

Nemec


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Re: the new ST9 application button

PLM World Member Phenom PLM World Member Phenom
PLM World Member Phenom

Hello,

 

I'm learning to live with the MS Ribbon interface but I still think it's slower.  One of my pet peeves is with Outlook.  When I launch Outlook, it opens to the home tab.  If I want to use send/receive to pull in new emails, I have to then pick the Send/Receive tab, then press the Send/Receive all folders.  So now there is a tab to pick and then another button to press.  I can't possibly see how Microsoft thought that was a more efficient way to operate Outlook.

I do find having to pick the application button in SE to see properties etc. is extra steps.  The ribbon interface in general requires a lot of eyeball gymnastics to get to commands.  And yes, I have done some customization and use of quick access buttons.

 

Kyle

Kyle Joiner
IPA LLC
ST10 MP1

Re: the new ST9 application button

Genius
Genius

 

Sorry for the messy formatting, but I'm obviously not familiar with this message system. My comments are underlined.

 

bnemec wrote:

Sorry to “flog the down horse” but I’m signing this list.

@hawcad, I appreciate your post; however I must disagree that modern UI are what they are and there’s nothing we can do about it. My personal opinion is that Siemens has the ability to do whatever they want with a UI. They can choose to listen to their customers or choose to do whatever trips their fancy, I’m going to hope that they listen to their customers.


Could not agree more. I do not use Microsoft products except for OneNote and Win10, so there is another world out there... Let's not forget the user interface 'disaster' of Windows 8. MS should not automatically be seen as the ideal model for UI. I HATE in OneNote how the “File” menu is a whole other screen. It is difficult to describe the frustration that SE has appeared to have copied a feature I hate with the ‘Application’ button.


However, you are dead right in that we must learn to use what we are given after all, it’s not like the companies we work for can just switch CAD systems because we do not like the UI.

 

Agree, and of course we are all using it. We are just voicing our opinion on perceived backwards steps in the user interface.

 

@Imics, So the solution to an added feature or functionality is for the users who, for the most part are busy using the tool to do their job, to spend time setting up new menus to make it feel like it was before we upgraded?  That makes no sense at all.

 

The quick access bar is handy, but I have about ten buttons that I want on it in every environment and I'm still adding those buttons to new environments.  Can we get a base quick bar that doesn't change with work environment?  Another waste of time to get the UI set up to some level of proficiency that will need to be redone with the next release. Fortunately our CAD admin here likes to skip releases.  I'm glad my spaceball has 12 buttons on it.

 

Agree. My Quick Access Toolbar is full of the BASIC functions that I think should be there. These are to RESTORE basic functionality, rather than ADD functionality. There are so many different environments and the modification process clunky enough, that I pretty well dread having to upgrade, just hoping that the new features are enough to make it worth it. I think there are probably almost ten environments that I have to try and replicate the same toolbar in. The only way to do it properly is to screenshot each one.

 

Why does it feel like most of the changes are done to give a "new appeal" instead of robust functionality? It has the hallmark signs of marketing being in charge of how the software looks instead of people who need it to do their jobs choosing how it works. Please brag up the improved functions over visual appeal. Time spent improving the reliability of adjustable assemblies for example would be well spent.

 

If something is not really robust, then I stay away from it and advise others to stay away from it. The reason is that you will end up doing it twice or three times and it still probably won’t work when you need it. This means a lot of the new features I never every use. For me, I would prefer my maintenance dollar to go into improving the things that I USE every day.  

 

Maybe next time go ahead with all the fancy features, but don't make them default.  There are videos galore for people to learn about new functionality, don't make us go hunting for the options to get back to where we are proficient.  

 

Agree, I find myself after an upgrade just trying to get back to where I was. This can take quite a while (hours) and because you have upgraded on the same machine most of the time, you don’t have the old version to compare with. Unless you are really organised with screenshots or some other way, you are running on memory, and who can remember all the slight nuances and tweaks?

Re: the new ST9 application button

Genius
Genius

Ok, rather than just complain, I'll try to explain what I've added to my Quick Access Toolbar to try and get back what I see as BASIC functionality.

 

Capture2.PNG

 

 This is the menu in ORDERED PART

  • FILE PROPERTIES - I use this quite often for metadata. The alternative is Application>'wait'>Info>File Properties and the Application screen has a lot of real estate so your eyes are all over the place. All for a simple icon. For those that work with a low number of complex parts this would have less benefit. I see to do a large number of parts that might be simple, but are also complex at times. In fact when on complex parts I revise often (Save as..) so if it all falls apart I can step back easily. So I still use File Properties a lot
  • NEW - Now I can't remember if this is on the QAT by default or not, but it would be ridiculous if it isn't. Without this shortcut you have to go Application>New>New (yes that's right, there are two news unless your desired template is in the top level) and you are BACK IN THE NORMAL SCREEN with the modestly sized easy to use New File window pop up. Madness... BTW - the new file window still cannot be resized though...
  • OPEN - Again, I can't remember if this is on the QAT by default or not, and to be honest I use two monitors and almost always open parts through Windows Explorer. This is very basic functionality. Again, if the shortcut were not there you would go Application>Open> (maybe a recent file or..) Browse> and then the modestly sized Open File window pops up BACK IN THE MAIN SCREEN!!
  • SAVE - Surely this is here by default
  • SAVE AS - I use this all the time for new versions, but also PDF's of drawings and 3D PDF's for sharing with customers. Also for exporting files in STEP or PARASOLID for manufacturing or sharing to another CAD system. I don't think this is a particularly radical use by me. I'm sure many users do this
  • CREATE ASSEMBLY - Maybe not many use this regularly, and I know the options are in the NEW FILE drop down, so I would not argue against this being a personal customisation
  • CREATE DRAWING - Similar to above, but I would almost say this would be a reasonably commonly used feature, or worth its own button at least. I do know this feature is not so old and in the past we would just start a new draft file and drag in the part in question. This feature is good though and very helpful with a large number of parts
  • UNDO and REDO - Default 
  • SYNCHRONOUS and ORDERED - I jump between modes often, and without the QAT shortcuts you have to go to Tools>Sync (..or Ordered). I don't know about others but I NEVER use the scroll wheel for jumping between menu tabs. It is far too inaccurate. Maybe that is just my mouse, but I don't think so. So to go to tools you have to hunt for the tab and then hunt again. On the QAT the shortcuts are always there, always in sight.
  • VIEW STYLES - Yes you can access these on the bottom, however I prefer them in the QAT for two reasons. Firstly, because they are ALL in sight so you can quickly pick what you want. At the bottom they are in a submenu. Submenus are bad and should only be used if there is not enough room for things. Obviously there is enough room for me for a shortcut at the top. Secondly, because when I move my mouse down to the default button it is very easy to overshoot the small icon and end up on the Windows taskbar. At the to you cannot overshoot because the mouse stops at the top, and the shortcuts are at the top. So the bottom icon needs more 'aiming', or to put it another way it requires more marksmanship, or to put it another way it needs more work to achieve the same outcome.

This is only for ONE environment, and whilst I do have some differences between them all, the ones shown are fairly common between all of them. I think. I can't be bothered to spend another portion of an hour going through them all.

 

I'm sure others will have different preferences, but my main point is that in my opinion this is pretty basic functionality, nothing radical, so these tools should be available on the DEFAULT user interface, and should not be up to the user to have to customise the user interface.

 

I need to go and make some money now.... sorry for SHOUTING.

Re: the new ST9 application button

Phenom
Phenom

The basic QAT has undo next to save I believe.

The person who thought this was a good idea should be sacked.

HP Z420 16GB RAM
Quadro K4000
SE2019 MP5 on Windows 10 Pro 64.

Re: the new ST9 application button

Genius
Genius

I will add to the frustration of the responsiveness of the Application button up until MP5 was release.  After we loaded MP5, the application button wait is tolerable.  Nothing is perfect, but it's better.  Pre-MP5, I was getting handy with the command finder in typing in "File Prop" and "Property Man"

 

I do miss the ability to add to QAT from the Application menu and have to do a Customize.

I am now a little leery of doing much customization of the ribbon in ST9 on Win10.  I have been able to "corrupt" my Theme twice now.  First time was a complete rebuild.  The second time, GTAC was able to isolate the problem and get it fixed. The is a PR still out on it though.

 

Dale Smith
Mitsubishi Electric Power Products, Inc.
SE 2019 MP6 - Insight