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Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

We are working towards implementing Teamcenter Rapid Start on our site.  We use virtual servers in the VMWare environment.

 

Which type of server would work best from a performance standpoint:  a virtual server or a dedicated physical server.  What type do you run?

 

Any replies to this would be greatly appreciated!

12 REPLIES

Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

If you search the solution center for VMware, you should find software field bulletins (SFBs) about support of virtualization.

 

We have been using virtual servers since we started to use Teamcenter Engneering 2005 SR1 back in 2008.

We are now on Teamcenter 10.1 and have all severs virtualized on VMware 5.5

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.0, FBM, MRL 3.1.4 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 10.1
Development: VB.NET, Tcl/Tk    Testing: NX11.0 EAP, NX12.0 EAP

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Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

That sounds promising.  What are the specs ofthe virtual servers?  RAM, processors, numberof processors, etc.  More than two processors per server?

Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

The specs are highly depending on the number of users you have, so it is more or less a trial and error approach.

 

We are running the following configuration:

Teamcenter 10.1 64-bit on Windows Server 2008 R2

 

Database Server:

SQL Server 2008 R2

4 CPUs, 32GB RAM

 

Application Server:

2 CPUs, 8GB RAM

 

Dispatcher Server:

4 CPUs, 16GB RAM

 

Web Server:

4 CPUs, 16GB RAM

 

Volume Server:

1 CPU, 4GB RAM

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.0, FBM, MRL 3.1.4 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 10.1
Development: VB.NET, Tcl/Tk    Testing: NX11.0 EAP, NX12.0 EAP

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Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

How many users do you have?

 

Do you deal with massive assemblies that might contain lots of links or smaller bottom-up modelling type of stuff?  Or...?

Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

We do have 140 users, where 60 work with NX via 2-tier, the others with the thin client and TcVis.

 

What do you call massive assemblies?

 

We are a mold maker and we deal with assemblies of 500 parts upwards.

We don't load the entire assembly often, mostly only the assembly structure and then the region the designer is working on.

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.0, FBM, MRL 3.1.4 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 10.1
Development: VB.NET, Tcl/Tk    Testing: NX11.0 EAP, NX12.0 EAP

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Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

[ Edited ]

Thanks Stefan.  We are a steel mill and are just a minnow by comparison to you with just six seats of Teamcenter Rapid Start (TcRS).  Slowly but surely our entire plant will eventually be in 3D models.  A major plant item could have upwards of 30,000 parts in total.  Mostly, though, a typical assembly might have a few tens to a few hundred to a few thousand parts.  A major project can have several thousand unique parts and assemblies.

 

When you say "We don't load the entire assembly often, mostly only the assembly structure and then the region the designer is working on.", what do you mean?  I realise you are using NX and not Solid Edge and I do not know NX at all.  How do you load just the assembly structure and not the entire assembly?

 

We have yet to implement TcRS and are still in the testing stage.  One thing we are trying to figure out is what is considered to be an acceptable performance for TcRS.  We have found from the testing that running Solid Edge with TcRS is VASTLY slower than using Solid Edge in an unmanaged environment.  In particular, the check in process takes quite a long time -- often several minutes at least just for a handful of files.  It gets worse as the number of files to check in increases.  The odd thing is that the server is hardly loaded at all so the bottleneck seems to be in TcRS itself.  We compared two identical assemblies (30,000 parts) -- one with all the links broken and the other with all links intact, and it made no difference.  With your hundred-plus users your installation must be quite well-tuned.  What would be a typical load time for your typical assembly?  What about checking in?  Is it typical to set a worflow going and then have to go away for a coffee break?  We are trying to work out whether what we are seeing is the typical experience and that that is as good as it is going to get, or whether there is something drastically wrong in our setup.

 

I appreciate your input!

Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

[ Edited ]

chrisstandring wrote:

When you say "We don't load the entire assembly often, mostly only the assembly structure and then the region the designer is working on.", what do you mean? I realise you are using NX and not Solid Edge and I do not know NX at all. How do you load just the assembly structure and not the entire assembly?


In NX you have the option to load only the structure if you open an assembly, which is a check box in the file open dialog.

I don't know SE, so I can't tell if it allows this or not.

 

Sure a managed environment takes a bit longer to save, but that is nothing compared to the need to have something done twice, if one accidentally saves a part file you are currently working on and you can't save your changes.

 

The environment we are working in is not really tuned at all, we just followed the advice given in the white paper called Siemens-Teamcenter-and-SQL-Server-Best-Practices.pdf, a search engine should find the Microsoft download link.

The key is to have a fast and performing database connection and server, since the additional traffic is only the database compared to working in an unmanaged environment.

Stefan Pendl, Systemmanager CAx, HAIDLMAIR GmbH
Production: NX10.0.3, VERICUT 8.0, FBM, MRL 3.1.4 | TcUA 10.1 MP7 Patch 0 (10.1.7.0) | TcVis 10.1
Development: VB.NET, Tcl/Tk    Testing: NX11.0 EAP, NX12.0 EAP

How to Get the Most from Your Signature in the Community

Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

Hi Stefan,

 

Thanks for that.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

Re: Virtual server versus Physical server -- which works best?

Chris,

You have the option to load an assemblies structure only in Solid Edge, just like in NX. It's different depending on the version. For ST7 you hightlight the desired assembly to open, and at the bottom there is a toggle for "assembly open as" and you need to change that from "Auto-Select". Then if you then select the "More" button you can go in there and change the line for "Hide all components" to "Yes" as well as variouos other settings and your assembly will open right up with just the Assembly Tree shown. You can then use Configurations, Zones, etc. to load the portions of the model you want for viewing.

--
Ryan Gudorf
CAD/CAM Supervisor
Budde Sheet Metal Works, Inc.
Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
Solid Edge V20
NX11.0.1
TC10.1.5 32 GB RAM, nVIDIA Quadro K4200