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Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Pioneer
Pioneer

Hello everyone,

Here is some backgrounds: I have created an OPC-simulation where is a simple XY-table. I defined two devices: X and Y. Both devices have two links and one joint between the links. Y is attached from it's base to the moving link of X.

I would like to disable the operation time somehow, so I could use only the device joint speed values for all the movements. Movements are now executed according to the value set in the operation.


I wasn't sure how to do it correctly but this is what I did for the both X and Y devices:

1. Defined poses (HOME, pos1 etc..)

2. Generated device operations and signals (I assume that the signals are joint value sensors)

3. Used the generated signals in PLC to control my XY-table (actually signals are controlling the operations of my devices which is an issue)


Problems:

It seems to work great except when driving with manual mode (X joint moving to plus direction as long as I press button), for example, driving X from current position to pos1 (operation X_to_pos1_Op).  In operation properties of X_to_pos1_Op there is a specified time for how long it executes this operation.

So if I stop my X-joint just before it reaches to pos1 (joint value sensor is not sensing) and start it again --> It will took the exact same time for the remaining distance as it is specified in operation properties.

(An example: Operation time 10s, distance between pos0 and pos1 is 1000mm

--> Stop 100mm before pos1 --> It will take approximately 9s to reach 900mm

--> Restart the operation --> It will take 10s to move 100mm (from current position to pos1))

This also happens in auto mode if I use restart after stopping the cycle.


Here is some questions:

1. Is there an other, maybe correct way to create this kind of device? (I know the conveyor works excellently for moving appearances and it does not require any operations at all --> no matter where you stop the conveyor, it will always use the speed set)

2. Is it possible to ignore the operation time for executing movement? (If I define it as 0, it will move to the position with the speed value of Joint properties, but the program sets the used time to the operation time after the execution)


I know that I should use maybe the Siemens NX (MCD) for this kind of simulations but should it also be possible in Process Simulate?

All help would be appreciated! And don't hesitate to ask for more precise explanation if you didn't understood my problem.

 

Best regards

SaMe

11 REPLIES

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom
Hi SaMe,
to be honest, I did not your whole huge post as I read it on my cell phone...
But the first few sentences I believe your problem starts here:
Device operation are to be used in time-base simulations and maybe in CEE mode.
When driving devices PLC connected it's much easier to directly connect your signals to the device logic ‎.
There is no need to use operations to drive a device at all.
‎Check manual for logic-blocks and smart-components.



-----------------
Siemens Industry Software GmbH & Co. KG; Anschrift: Franz-Geuer-Str. 10, 50823 Köln;
Kommanditgesellschaft: Sitz der Gesellschaft: Köln; Registergericht: Amtsgericht Köln, HRA 28227;
Geschäftsführung und persönlich haftender Gesellschafter: Siemens Industry Software Management GmbH;
Geschäftsführer: Urban August, Daniel Trebes; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Köln; Registergericht: Amtsgericht Köln, HRB 70858

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Pioneer
Pioneer

Hello GuidoDamm,

Thanks for the quick reply, so all I need to do is to:

1. Create a Logic Block

2. Connect device to the LB

 

No need for Device Poses? Or do I use the signals which I created for the different poses inside the logic block?

 

Best regards

SaMe

 

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom
even easier:
just do 'add LB to device' (or similar)

Inside the logic you have 'action' for just driving an axis, but also 'move to pos'.


-----------------
Siemens Industry Software GmbH & Co. KG; Anschrift: Franz-Geuer-Str. 10, 50823 Köln;
Kommanditgesellschaft: Sitz der Gesellschaft: Köln; Registergericht: Amtsgericht Köln, HRA 28227;
Geschäftsführung und persönlich haftender Gesellschafter: Siemens Industry Software Management GmbH;
Geschäftsführer: Urban August, Daniel Trebes; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Köln; Registergericht: Amtsgericht Köln, HRB 70858

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Pioneer
Pioneer

Hello,

 

I have got it working but I am still struggling with an other problem:

I want my device to stop at a proximity sensor but it doesn't stop precisely at it.

For example,

1. my sensor is at the end of a linear slide, just before my device would hit the "wall"

2. after first test, my device stopped 12mm before hitting the wall

3. now I want to adjust that 2mm, so it would stop 10mm before wall so I move my sensor 2mm closer the wall

4. the device should stop 10mm before the wall but instead that it will go "through" the sensor and will stop 2mm before the wall

5. also tried to increase the detection range of the sensor but it also seems to work in 10mm cycles (checked this from the Joing jog, I am able to stop my device at joint position of 10, 20, 30mm ... etc)

 

I used a Joint speed of 100mm/s inside Kinematics Editor and after changed it to 50mm/s, the accuracy of movement changed from 10mm to 5mm.

So is there any way to fix this?

 

A help would be appreciated!

 

 

Best regards

SaMe

 

 

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom
Hi SaMe,
sorry that I did not respond on your last post, which was an answer to my previous…

Of course you can define poses.
And within the LB you have a “move to pose” action that you can use.
Additionally to that, your device can have limits, which are the hardware-limits.
Btw: when you have poses, PS can automatically create your logic. Only for simple devices, but you can edit and extend the logic.
Get the button “Automatic Pose Action/Sensor Creation” from the customization.

If you have to stop at a sensor, without having a pose there, you are facing the same problem as you have in reality.
There is a latency between detecting and acting, depending on the size of the time-slices in which your system is evaluating.
You have to play with the options>PLC>LB update-rate, or if connected via OPC with the time-interval and/or the OPC update cycle.

Your 10, 20, 30mm stop points are probably related to your 100mm/s device speed and the LB-update-rate of 100ms, which is the default.
This also explains the 50mm/s, 5mm steps. Increase the rate.

Regards,
Guido

-----------------
Siemens Industry Software GmbH & Co. KG; Anschrift: Franz-Geuer-Str. 10, 50823 Köln;
Kommanditgesellschaft: Sitz der Gesellschaft: Köln; Registergericht: Amtsgericht Köln, HRA 28227;
Geschäftsführung und persönlich haftender Gesellschafter: Siemens Industry Software Management GmbH;
Geschäftsführer: Urban August, Daniel Trebes; Sitz der Gesellschaft: Köln; Registergericht: Amtsgericht Köln, HRB 70858

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Pioneer
Pioneer

Hello GuidoDamm and thank you for such a specific answer,

 

I have tested the "move to pose" actions and it works very well.

The reason I want to use an external sensor to stop my device is because there is a real system which I am simulating and it is working like that.

 

- I am using an OPC connection so can you tell me are these two the only settings that have an affect: 1. Process Simulate, PLC update rate and 2. TIA portal, OPC Server's S7 cycle time?

 

- Update rate (I tried 10, 100 and 1000ms) of my External Connection doesn't have an effect at all where my device will stop (I didn't change the update rate of my PLC which should be low enough, 10ms)


So far the only thing that have had an effect is to decrease the speed of my device (inside Kinematics) but then I have to increase the Simulation Time Interval or otherwise I will have very slow simulation. Maybe I get along with this but in my opinion this can cause some problems when simulating bigger stations. In the long run though I am able to create a PLC-code for controlling my station which is the main reason I am doing this.

 

Best regards

SaMe

 

 

 

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />
I also mentioned the time-interval of the simulation.
Probably this you also set to 0.1s? Try 0.01.

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Pioneer
Pioneer

Hello,

 

I have got it working now but when I want my device to move also my appearances I am unable to do that, because I can't use Attach on appearances. How should I connect my appearances to my device, which should move the appearance?

 

Best regards

SaMe

Re: Operation time vs. Joint speed value (PS 12.0TR1)

Siemens Phenom Siemens Phenom
Siemens Phenom

you can attach part appearances in Tx 12.1 (not in previous versions).